On guards, Gonzaga, and the casual Cougar fan
With a day behind us, allow me to add my reflections to those of Nuss earlier.
Last night was a total shock. No, not the final score. I think all of us knew Gonzaga could run away with the game given their offensive prowess. I knew the Cougs would have to play a near-perfect game to have a shot at the victory.
What was a shock was how it happened. It took eight minutes to completely unravel a normally disciplined Cougar team. It happened after a first half where we happened to play nearly-perfect.
And what happened off the court was even more shocking. Let me step back - I was actually tired after the first half - it was one of the first times since I've been in the ZZU CRU where at least half the students in the lower bowl were jumping around on defense. I was physically drained and I thought, "we still have to do another half of this." Add that to the noise - which is always present - and you have a pretty formidable fan section. The Cameron Crazies would've been impressed.
But the arena had the life sucked out of it. It was like the balloon of energy that had been expanding gradually since the first fans set up tents 24 hours earlier was popped without warning. If the team had made their threes (they were 1 of 10 in the first half) we could have at least had a lead at the break and the initial run wouldn't have hurt. But as it was, the ball game was essentially over when the scoreboard read 41-31.
Cfred wrote a fanpost about the guards earlier, one that I think sparked an interesting argument. Are the guards too pass-happy, or are they not involving their teammates enough?
My feeling is this: Rochestie needs to pass more, and the other guards need to shoot more. Rochestie's team-high 11 attempts is more of an indication of him trying to take the game over than involving his teammates. Meanwhile, Klay Thompson and Nikola Koprivica had a fair amount of attempts last night, but could still have attempted more as we tried to come back in the second half. Actually, it was Aron Baynes that needed more looks in the end (3 for 3 on the night).
But that's not the biggest issue with the guards, in my opinion. My problem with the guards, most notably Rochestie and Thompson, is their lack of ability to draw contact when they drive to the basket. Remember the successful first half? Part of that half featured nine consecutive points by the Cougars, all from the foul line. Taylor Rochestie is a 95% free throw shooter. Thompson is 100% on the year (7 for 7). The single greatest thing these two players can do to help this offense down the road is get to the line. They have to be more willing to initiate contact in the lane.
Let's take a play out of the Mark Few playbook. One of Gonzaga's problems throughout the years has been a tendency to draw offensive fouls. But part of this is that the Zags are the agressors in the lane. If that means occasionally you pick up a cheap foul on a charge, that's OK. And by the way, how often have you seen the Cougars make an offensive foul that isn't away from the ball this year? Not often at all. Klay and Taylor can make a world of difference by driving the lane without fear of contact. Why throw up a runner when you can go for a lay-in and a potential foul shot?
Another benefit - if Taylor and Klay succeed, defenders will have to come out of the paint to try and stop them from driving to the hoop. That means more room for that extra pass to Baynes, or a kick out for an open jump shot. So let's get to the basket.
One more thing with the guards in general. They get it. Taylor said:
"I think we were pretty disrespectful to our coaching staff and kind of our system that was implemented to us because we didn't play with the right kind of juice and the right kind of poise and the right kind of soundness that we are taught every day at practice. And that's offensively and defensively. So we're down about that more than the score."
Now, they have to channel that frustration into a positive, in how they practice this week. I really think they can do that. You don't want to be Montana State right now.
Back to the Zags - the fact of the matter is we cannot field a lineup that can defend Heytvelt, Downs, Pargo and Daye at the same time. That's 6'11", 6'8", 6'10" and a 6'2" surefire NBA guard. And all of them are great shooters. Few made the mistake of having Heytvelt ride the pine for a large part of the first half with two fouls (as a part-time Zag follower, this is a common issue with Few). Once Heytvelt returned, the matchup problems came right back with him.
The Zags are really freaking good. I hope people realize this loss has as much to do with that as it does with our guys.
As for the fans - I have to say that I like both the low attendance and the high attendance games, albeit for completely different reasons.
The low attendance games are great because it's only the diehard fans in the lower rows of the ZZU CRU. They know the team, they know the players, and they could care less that we're playing Sacramento State, because they came to see WSU and not the opponent.
Meanwhile, the "big" games, like last night, have an energy unlike any other. Even at a reduced size of 3,800, the ZZU CRU is beyond huge. And loud. There's a sort-of party atmosphere; one that only gets amplified when there's a big shot or a huge block. Sure, a fair amount of the fans don't know who #44 is, and some of them just came out because they wanted to see the #5 Zags. Or UCLA. Or Arizona. You get the picture.
Casual fans are a necessity to a successful program, but they come with their flaws. Considering most "casual" fans have no idea this site exists, I can't really come out with a proclamation like "stop saving seats" or "stop leaving early". But I can bridge the gap by saying that at the very least, I'll take our casual fans over anyone else's most passionate fans. As long as they don't turn on our team, I'm all right with all the Cougar fans. Even the ones who can't pronounce Koprivica.
One last thing: Cougar commit Brock Motum, the 6'9" Aussie power forward, was at the game. As was our old power forward, Robbie Cowgill. Assistant Coach Ben Johnson joked to Motum that we could have used him in uniform last night. Actually, that might not have been a joke. Either way, I hope Motum takes more away from the first half experience than the second.
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Grady?
Question. As I am getting ready for work this morning I don’t have time to read the whole post. But, what are your overall thoughts on Nik after this game. I know you have praised him early….but I was not and have never really been impressed with his inability to make a play. He drives (I use that term loosely) to the hoop and seems to look like he happens to have the basketball in his hand with really no intent to shoot it. He just seems unrefined as a basketball player and a bit sloppy when bringing the ball up the court. I don’t know, i’ve never been able to pinpoint exactly why I don’t like Nik as a player, but I always have a “hold my breath” moment every time he touches the ball.
Thoughts anyone? And just in case, I’m not against any decision TB makes with regard to our line-up or rotation. Just making an observation with my untrained eyes.
Short answer: He's in there more for defense than offense
Thanks for the green light! :-)
In my opinion, Nik’s probably been our most valuable defender this year. He’s versatile, tall long and but still fairly quick, and he gets physical with guys in a way that irritates the heck out of them but doesn’t draw cheap fouls. The only guy he hasn’t been able to guard this year has been Sam Young, and there aren’t many guys who can.
His offense has been a bit of a disappointment in general to me. Yeah, he’ll hit an occasional wide-open 3, which is better than the last two years, but when he puts the ball on the floor he more often than not looks like a mess. He gets a pretty significant number of shots blocked by dribbling into messes, which tells me he’s just not quick enough to the bucket when he’s dribbling. He probably needs to be doing more moving without the ball, backdoor cuts, screen and roll, etc. if he’s truly going to be effective. It seems like those opportunities should be there in a motion offense.
Do you agree, Jo-Jo? You know more about offenses than I do …
Good observations, both
I’m a huge fan of Niks, people think I’m crazy. It definately starts with his defense and Nuss is 100% right. Not only on the ball but as a help defender too. He has been invaluable.
Offensively I can see why he looks like a liability. I think it’s his lack of athleticism and awkwardness that throughs people off. He is a servicable stand still shooter when open, he can get to the basket (whether he converts is whole other story), and he has actually created more shots for the bigs than any other player on this team. Where he gets into trouble is ball handling. He should not be bringing the ball up court, and he should not really be moving the ball around the perimeter with the dribble.
He is very smart off the ball on offense but his lack of athleticism really effects his usability. He shout catch and shoot from a stationary position, and they should use him in Iso situation to get to the basket when they need to pick up a foul on a defender, or when they want to get Baynes a bucket and can’t post him up.
I think that with his ball handling problems
he commits turnovers and I would place that solely on the offensive system. I believe he is being used outside the realm of his strengths.
Nik's defense...
I probably choose not to focus on that element of his game because I’m so turned off by his offensive mess. But I guess I didn’t really consider the way he frustrates people.
I think his offensive issues get magnified because of the lack of offensive firepower around him
I really don’t think he’s a bad offensive player. I just think — like most of the team — he has a limited and specific skill set that would look WAY better next to a dynamic teammate or two. Unfortunately, we don’t have those guys right now …
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 12, 2008 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
I agree with you about the lack of successful penetration by the guards.
That was the main point I was trying to make.
I’m not so sure that Motum would have been the help we needed. Sure, it’s great to tell a recruit something like that… but our issues seem to be in the back-court and not the front-court. Hopefully our freshman guards will amount to something soon, but expecting it this year might be too much to expect.
One thing to note
We are stacked at the guard position for years to come. Maybe Johnson was refering to the perimeter defense on Heytvelt that Baynes couldn’t execute. I have no idea.
Offensively I agree with you, as you (cfred) and I have beaten a dead horse on the ill effects of the Cougs guard play on the bigs (Baynes), I can’t see how Motum wouldn’t have made any difference. But on the defensive end … defending bigs on the perimeter? Who knows.
I don't think anyone who is Heytvelt's size could guard Heytvelt on the perimeter.
If they could. They would probably be in the NBA. When you’ve got a guy his size who can light the other team up with 3’s… it really spells disaster.
which is exactly why the Coaching staff needs to get Boeke ready to play
This dude could be such a weapon for the Cougs as his career moves forward. With very little offensive production from the bigs and Baynes graduating, sooner would be better than later.

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