Paul Sorensen offers perspective on the football program
Give it a read. He lays out the facts and what he's seen with his own eyes. In the end, he tells everyone to lay off Wulff and wait and see. Kind of like Nuss wrote about "the process" the other day. Wait and see...
4 months ago
cougfan
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I was going to post this, too
Thanks for doing that. One thing you can’t deny: Anyone who’s close to the program is absolutely convinced that Wulff is doing it the right way and is going to experience success eventually. I find that compelling.
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 18, 2009 5:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not too sure what to think of that...
It would be bad form for someone close to the program to come out and voice a negative opinion of Wulff. That would only cause more problems. I’m not saying they aren’t being truthful or anything. They just know the fan base needs some reason for optimism.
by 907coug on Nov 18, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's just say this kind of praise wasn't coming out at the end of Doba's tenure ...
It’s not that people normally come out and say the opposite; it’s that they don’t normally say anything at all if they don’t believe in what’s going on. Clearly, that’s not what’s happening here.
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 18, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But, they didn't have to
Doba was 6-6 and 5-7. If WSU had the same record 1-9 record but was in every game this season, Sorenson would not need to write his article. It is the nature of the beatdowns that has everyone panicking.
by Coug1990 on Nov 18, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those two seasons were disappointing, though
And there was most certainly grumbling over the direction of the program. It’s part of what led to Doba bowing out. You didn’t hear anyone saying, “Don’t even think about pushing the old man out the door — he’s doing things the right way!”
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 18, 2009 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again, it is the nature of the current beatdowns that is causing the panic
and the need for people to come to Wulff’s defense. There was grumbling over the direction of the program when Doba was coach and there is grumbling over the direction of the program now.
So, let me repeat, if WSU was 1-9 and losing most games by 7 points, there would be no need for Sorensen to write this article.
by Coug1990 on Nov 18, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His comment regarding Washington
is about as high of praise as I’ve ever heard of someone who hasn’t even seen the field yet.
by TiltingRight on Nov 18, 2009 5:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I've heard great things
But I didn’t expect that kind of compliment. I’m excited to see him hit the field. Our secondary could sure use it.
by cougfan on Nov 18, 2009 6:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you remember last year when Wulff continually said
that Williams was already the best offensive lineman on the team with pro potential?
by Coug1990 on Nov 18, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes an now he starts
which would support what was said wouldn’t it? Also, the guy has played decent and he is injured since game #2—
If you can't Go Cougs... don't go.
by hollyweirdcoug on Nov 19, 2009 12:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The way Wulff talked him up, we all could have expected an all pac 10 type player
He is a serviceable lineman, but he has not been the special player that Wulff talked up last year. That is not to diminish Williams, my point was to temper expectations until they actually happen.
by Coug1990 on Nov 19, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He got called for a late hit against AZ (?)
where he was 15-20 yards down field, right behind the ballcarrier when he got tackled. Wasn’t impressed by the late hit, but I was impressed he’d worked his way that far looking to pop someone and free his guy up.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 12:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, if you're referring to the play where he brushed his shoulder with someone near the place where Tardy was tackled
That was a great example of Pac-10 officiating at its finest.
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 19, 2009 1:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good News!
Lopina is starting this week and may also be starting next week! Wish Tuel was healthy for Apple Cup
by cougfan on Nov 18, 2009 8:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I didn't major in math, but...
So here we are with the facts.
• Of the 25 kids signed in WSU’s 2005 recruiting class — kids that would be fifth-year seniors now — only four remain and only five exhausted their eligibility. That means 16 players never made it to campus or washed out after arriving.
• Of the 25 kids signed in the 2006 class, only seven remain on the team and only three exhausted their eligibility. That means 14 washed out.
• Of the 27 kids signed in the 2007 class, four exhausted their eligibility and 16 remain in the program. That means 10 washed out.
2005: 25 – 9 = 16, hooray!
2006: 25 – 10 = 15, not 14, boo.
2007: 27 – 20 = 7, not 10, booooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
Am I missing something?
by johnnycougar on Nov 18, 2009 8:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I did that math, too
The only thing I can think of is that the numbers from the classes listed on scout get really hokey. Grayshirts get counted twice sometimes, and at least one guy was signed two times, two years apart, and once by the Bennetts in there as well (Dillon, IIRC). I don’t know if that’s why, but when I ran my “Depth” post, I got a wee bit confused as well.
by TiltingRight on Nov 18, 2009 9:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Possibly
I wondered if the editors were fact-checking and “corrected” the numbers without correcting the text to comply with the changes. It was just so obvious though I can’t really see how anyone would miss it. Whatever the actual numbers are, didn’t anyone proof this?
Anyways, not a big deal. I guess that’s what a WSU degree gets you? Or should I go with a dumb jock joke? Nah, the rest of the piece was good, I’ll refrain.
by johnnycougar on Nov 18, 2009 9:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of Wulff's first signing class in 2008
For various reasons, four are no longer with the team and one has been suspended the entire year (but, will be back next year).
by Coug1990 on Nov 18, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't he have only a few weeks...
to recruit an entire class?
by james_WSU on Nov 18, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was hired December 10th or 11th, so he had about two months
But, whether he had two weeks or two months is irrelevant anyway.
by Coug1990 on Nov 18, 2009 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
who are the four?
I thought Schmidke was told not to come after his summer arrest and the kid from Carlsbad… Volk something - who are the others? And why wouldn’t far less time for recruiting matter? I think including the holiday and bowl blackout periods the staff had 5 weeks to gather the ’08 group. Of that crew 18 have already started games- an astoundingly high number…
If you can't Go Cougs... don't go.
by hollyweirdcoug on Nov 19, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's WAY ahead of the previous few years.
Schmitke didn’t make it to campus due to discipline, Mackay a freak injury, Vandenkolk and Frank left before the season due to playing time… which ironically both would have had this season.
I don’t think that’s terrible for 2 (1.5?) years. At 26 signees (though, I don’t think they all came on scholarship due to APR issues) that’s still retaining nearly 85% of the class (only 15% attrition) assuming no one else quits/gets injured/arrested/deported/alien abducted.
Hosea and Thompson won’t make it this year from the 09 class, and in a couple months we’ll see if Rankin, Mastin and Buckley show up.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 12:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
making grades
I read recently that Rankin and Q are both getting it done on the books and will be Cougs. Don’t know about the LB from Spokane.
If you can't Go Cougs... don't go.
by hollyweirdcoug on Nov 19, 2009 12:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He was a full qualifier out of high school.
Academics isn’t an issue with Mastin, from what I know. He was grayshirted because of size.
I heard the same as you on Rankin. Buckley’s a ? because he apparently wasn’t happy being asked to grayshirt. Mastin, I’ve heard nothing about other than what I just posted… oh, and that he’s REALLY fast. Like “in the backfield before the tackle’s finished getting out of his stance” fast. His size makes me think that he’ll end up at LB, though.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the TE that enrolled for a week last January, then decided to go on a morman mission
I think his name was Peter Tuiasosopo, but I could be remembering incorrectly. My point was that all teams lose players and there will be more players from the 2008 class that will not complete their eligibility. I expect Wulff’s classes to do better for the fact that it must.
WSU does not want to go through the APR mess again, so Wulff, Sterk and the school administration all are going to make sure that it doesn’t happen again. In other words, they didn’t know the problem before, they do now and they are correcting it. That is a good thing.
by Coug1990 on Nov 19, 2009 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is reason enough to question the entire premise of the article when said premise is to promote "the facts"
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 19, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If TiltingRight hadn't basically covered the same ground last week I'd also question the article
As it is, I’m going to chuck it up to an accounting error.
by johnnycougar on Nov 19, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does Sorensen read CougCenter?
Pretty sure I’ve heard a lot of these arguments (and numbers) from Nuss and TiltingRight. At least more people will hear the message this way!
CougCenter WSU's second main blog
by Dancing Football on Nov 18, 2009 10:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I found that pretty humorous, too
Does it give us credibility that we said it before Sorensen?
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 18, 2009 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The NFL talent as a measure
of ability was a different (and excellent) one. But yeah, I had the same thought.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no where near as extensive as tilting's awesome totals
but I have been hammering this failed recruiting aspect on Seattle times as well…
trying to give perspective on just how ans why the cupboard is unusually bare the past two seasons…
If you can't Go Cougs... don't go.
by hollyweirdcoug on Nov 19, 2009 12:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nuss did the NFL talent thing.
CougCenter WSU's second main blog
by Dancing Football on Nov 19, 2009 7:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes...
that does ring a bell.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re Article
I made a comment over at Cougfan that I was disappointed that the article continue to be Obama speak. Here is a guy who has played the game at several levels as well as coached, can he give me some analysis about how Coach PW is doing on the field?
Really, isn’t there anyone out there with some credentials that could give some assessment. If Dick Bennett came in here and said yeah, these games couldn’t be more competitive because of the athlete issues, that would be great, but I have yet to see it. Sure fans have claimed we don’t have the athletes, but I want some respected coach to evaluate him and tell me whether PW knows how to coach himself out of a box.
by ptowncoug3012 on Nov 19, 2009 12:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think that's what we've all been debating lately
There’s no question, in my mind, that he can recruit and manage a program. His full recruiting class, and the way this one is shaping up, have been good. He’s taken care of the discipline aspect of the program, too, clearing house and weeding out the “bad seeds”.
What’s been discussed here, until we’re blue in the face, has been what we see on Saturdays. I understand the talent disparity that we have, but can he turn that talent into wins? My take right now is wait until next year and see what he does. By then it will be all “his guys” and the talent level should be better than what we have. Of course we’re also dealing with injuries, some that are fluke injuries, that has killed talent on both sides of the ball. When we have 3 (I think) health down lineman and 5 backers that can play along with numerous secondary injuries we’re gonna have problems.
I guess at this point the best I can say is wait and see. If he’s still getting beat around and outcoached next year, then we may have an X’s and O’s problem
by cougfan on Nov 19, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's no question he can recruit and build a program?
Again, where does this confidence come from? All I’m seeing is guys he’s recruiting getting stomped on, weekly.
by ReidForrest4Heisman on Nov 19, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(sigh)
All I’m seeing is guys he’s recruiting getting stomped on, weekly.
Guys who are, for the most part, not physically mature enough to play in the Pac-10 at this point, or older players who are not talented enough to play significant minutes for any other team in the conference.
The evidence that he can recruit is in the fact that his recruits are already the most talented players in the program; the evidence that he can manage a program is the buy-in that he’s gotten from the players, who are working much harder now than many of the holdovers were last year.
Again, as we talked about earlier this week, what we’re really talking about is results vs. process. Cougfan says he sees positives in the process. I don’t think that’s all that far out in left field.
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 19, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why I feel he can recruit and MANAGE a program
The evidence that he can manage a program and create the right kind of attitude is clear. He’s weeded out guys that have got into trouble, who haven’t bought in, and the guys he has have bought in to what he’s selling. They’ve drank the coolaid. If you pay attention to the attitude from the players in the program, none of them have a “screw it, we’re never going to get there” attitude. The guys in it feel, and have been quoted publicly saying, that they’re a part of something special. They want to be here and work their butts off to be better as players and better as a team. When you have a team getting their butts kicked the last two years and the players aren’t throwing the towel in, that says something.
As far as recruiting, he has had one full class, one throw together class, and one class in progress. His full class was, in my opinion, a good one. Look, you go try to recruit high caliber athletes when you have a two win team that was in blowouts most of last year. Then do it again while this season is in progress. What he’s pulled off has been, quite frankly, impressive. I haven’t seen anyone argue that these are terrible players and, in fact, many of them are positive contributors.
Yes, the guys are getting stomped weekly. You can’t throw a bunch of true and RS freshmen in and expect them to play like studs. There is a learning curve that comes with the transition from HS to Pac-10 caliber football. Do you really think we can play a good majority of freshmen on both sides of the ball and compete with the big boys?
Like I said, give him a year and then judge.
by cougfan on Nov 19, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A reason that I worry about Paul Wulff is that we don't know if he can "manage" a program
Part of managing a program is staying clean and he wasn’t able to do that at EWU. His actions caused Eastern to get NCAA sanctions. Now, I understand that he has more resources at WSU, but that is an excuse. There are many other programs that are on EWU’s level that were able to manage their resources.
Now, I am not even saying that Wulff intentionally does not try to play by the rules, but they are rules that he should have known. So, that worries me that he is not as detail oriented as he and his defenders try to portray.
And, what was worse to me, the way that he threw EWU under the bus when the sanctions came out worried me even more. It showed a lack of character. He should have manned up, instead he made excuses.
So, when you say he can manage a program, I am not sold yet.
by Coug1990 on Nov 19, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Walden has made some comments
I couldn’t understand him, something about Jimmies and Joes. I gathered that he thought that having really good players makes even bad game coaches look good, and really bad players make even good coaches look foolish. A caveat: I heard him say that last year but I don’t know if he thinks Wulff’s on track this year.
by johnnycougar on Nov 19, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about X's and O's it's about Jimmies and Joes
He’s said it this year, too.
by cougfan on Nov 19, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like Sorenson is just reading this website
With his cold hard facts…that have been already been shown to be anything but factual.
Pretty easy stance to take from someone who likes Paul Wulff. A no lose scenario, given he can use the Bill Doba excuse if Paul Wulff isn’t the program builder as Sorenson claims.
by ReidForrest4Heisman on Nov 19, 2009 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"With his cold hard facts…that have been already been shown to be anything but factual."
Come again? I don’t understand your criticism here. Are you talking about the funky math? Because there are reasons for that with grayshirts, delayed enrollments, etc.
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 19, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Funky Math, all Credibility gone here as pointed out by Gekko Mojo above...
this is reason enough to question the entire premise of the article when said premise is to promote “the facts”
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 19, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
by ReidForrest4Heisman on Nov 20, 2009 6:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Either you're really confused
or I am. Sorenson essentially makes the same argument as I do on my “Depth” post, to which you commented:
You did all this research to come to the conclusion…
That there’s no talent on the field? Wow, just go back and watch any game this season.
and now you’re saying it’s not true? You’ve changed your mind, and there IS talent on the field? Help me out here.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I cannot wait until the season is over!
I do not ever remember feeling that way before. Last year even though WSU lost game after game by wide margins, I still drove over to Pullman for every home game. This year, I have missed several.
Yet, it is just not the on field play that has me wanting the season to be over, it is the discussion surrounding Wulff and his plan as well. As Cougcenter has so eloquently written, Wulff is not going anywhere. He will be the coach at WSU next year.
Now, there are those on both sides of the fence that state their cases whether he should be here and mostly they are a rehash of ideas that had already been written. So, we don’t learn anything new and we all just keep going round and round and round.
Several times I have said to myself that I am not going to write anymore on the subject, then I would read something and I would find myself answering anyway.
So, since I cannot help myself, I want the season to be over and all of us can begin to focus on another subject. I hear that two golfers signed a letter of intent at WSU. Thoughts anyone?
http://wsucougars.cstv.com/sports/m-golf/spec-rel/111809aaa.html
by Coug1990 on Nov 19, 2009 7:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wooooo, Kentwood
Also, Kent is the son of Kevin Hagen, who is also his golf coach. Kevin Hagen is a former MLB pitcher, mingling around the Cards farm system and in the bigs for a while before becoming a firefighter here.
by cougfan on Nov 19, 2009 8:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody and I mean nobody will mess with the WSU team now.
I like the fact that Sang Lee can actually kick butt on the course being a Canadian National Taekwondo Champion.
by Coug1990 on Nov 19, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this sentiment whole-heartedly.
And have even gone through the whole “I’m not going to post” thing.
I’ve agreed to do a follow up comparing our attrition with other programs, which will likely not be ready until after the season, but otherwise, I’m pretty much done with football this year. Which is oh so sad.
by TiltingRight on Nov 19, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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