What happened to our depth? - Part 2
EDIT NUSS: Promoted for extreme amounts of awesomeness. If you read Part 1, make sure you read this. Seems to largely confirm what most of us assumed anecdotally. HUGE props to TiltingRight for this in-depth piece.
After the first post here, regarding the attrition that occurred over the 04, 05 and 06 recruiting classes, I made the case that the loss of bodies from those years caused a gaping hole in our depth chart. This was, in turn, a big part of the reason we were seeing the losses mount up in the 08 and 09 seasons.
In the comments, I mused about comparisons to other teams, and had a sense we weren't outside the norm of attrition, just at the bottom end. Well, after doing some research and plotting the data into a spreadsheet, I found some interesting stuff.
First, some disclaimers:
- The information I used to put this together comes from the scout.com databases. Their rankings of individual players and entire classes are inherently subjective. They also (obviously) don't take into account how the player will acclimate to college in general or D1 ball in particular. Further, they can't take into account how the player will develop mentally or physically, and often don't even project the player's position correctly.
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The recruiting class sizes and lists get a little weird. If a player grayshirts, for example, he can be listed in two classes. Also, if a player goes on a mission or joins the military between signing his letter and reporting, he may or may not be listed in two classes, but will show up as an increase in future years depth (OSU had a number of players that fell in both of these categories). Likewise if they chose to leave mid-career to go on a mission. - The raw data presented here does not take into account whether someone was a JC transfer, and thus played two years as a physically mature player, if he was an incoming freshman who never saw the field, whether they left early to play in the NFL or whether they were highly sought after or even for that matter ranked coming in. In other words, there's not all attrition is equal, not all players in a class are equal.
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The percentage numbers regarding how much of the roster is made up of certain classes reflects an 85 scholarship roster. Therefore it doesn't take into account transfers from other D1 schools, nor does it take into account APR penalties. - The numbers from the 08 class and particularly the 09 class might be sketchy, as often there aren't any stories about players that aren't making it to the field, and so it's tough to gauge whether they're actually with the team.
- The sample size used is still small. Unfortunately, while I found the time to do this research, and given a longer lead time could do more, I thought timeliness was important, and as we're wrapping up the season, waiting longer to crunch more numbers would have made the charts even less apropos.
- Last, I deliberately left out information on Arizona. This is because the Wildcats scout.com site had some oddball stuff going on. Their database had huge gaps in records (according to the database, half of their players missed the 2008 season, and rejoined in 2009) which threw off the numbers from the 06, 07 and 08 classes that I made what I was able to gather completely worthless. Too bad, because I think the numbers for Arizona might have given us a glimpse of what we could be looking forward to...? Who knows.
The charts read as follows (from left to right):
The school and recruiting year
The national and Pac10 ranking for that year (36.6 would be 36th nationally, 6th in Pac10)
The bold and italicized number is the total signed LOIs that year.
The numbers under the year is the remaining players from that class which participated at the beginning of that year. If a player left during spring camp they're still counted. If they were injured for the entire year, or even a part of the year, they're still counted.
Total attrition from each class in 08 and then 09.
The total number of players from 04 - 06 classes playing in 08 (would be Jrs and Srs) and the percentage of an 85 scholarship roster they make up.
The total number of players from the 04-07 classes playing in 08 (all previous classes) and the percentage of an 85 scholarship roster they make up.
The total number of players from the 05-07 classes playing in 09 and the percentage of an 85 scholarship roster they make up.
The total number of players form the 05-08 classes playing in 09 and the percentage of an 85 scholarship roster they make up.

Anything stand out here?
WSU has 67 scholarship athletes this year from the 5 previous recruiting classes. Now there are some transfers, and some walk-ons might have earned a scholly here or there, but holy cow! 67 out of 85 possible.
OSU had classes with 33 and 30 signees!?!? Now the note I made above about missions trips comes into factor here, but still... wow.
12 players on the WSU roster going into this season from the 05 and 06 classes. Oregon had 14 if you include a couple holdovers from 04 (grayshirt? medical RS?). ASU was next with 17. On the other end, UCLA had 29! Stanford and OSU had 28. The rest were around 20.
So what does the data say?
Well, WSU is consistantly at the top for attrition. And by a wide margin this year on the 05-07 classes (8%+). Oregon bumps us in the 05-08 classes from THIS year's roster.
ASU is not far behind regarding attrition, and pretty close in the standings, as well.
Stanford probably has the consistantly lowest attrition rate, with OSU, UW and UCLA in the running behind them.
Then what can can we draw out?
Well, the teams with the highest attrition don't always lose. WSU and ASU had the consistently highest attrition (both had APR issues, too) and lost a lot. Oregon and USC has been in the upper half of all but one of the four measures but are two of the better teams in the conference. So apparently, if you can recruit like USC and Oregon have lately, you can withstand higher attrition relatively well.
The teams with the lowest attrition don't always win. UW and UCLA aren't doing too hot, considering how much of those earlier recruiting classes are still on their roster. OSU and Stanford, however are doing pretty well with their stable of players. In fact, they've done it without the highly ranked recruiting classes UW and UCLA had, too, by developing those players and building depth.
The teams with the highest ranked classes don't always win. USC and Oregon do pretty consistantly. UCLA and UW don't pretty consistantly.
The teams with the lowest ranked classes don't always lose. OSU has shown that you can consistantly win by developing less talented players. Stanford has started to come on as well. WSU and ASU have been performing "as expected" with lower half classes.
So what can we really conclude here?
Well, it seems to me that the Cougs hit the perfect storm of poop the last couple of seasons. Based on the above we've been hit three ways:
Strike 1 - Horrendous attrition. Consistantly (and by far on most counts) the lowest number of holdovers from earliest available recruiting classes.
Strike 2 - Poor recruiting. Superior talent in the later classes can make up for poor retention in earlier classes. We are obviously not USC or Oregon.
Strike 3 - Coaching change. The Oregon transfer of power is the rare exception to coaching changes. In a lot of ways, so is ours. Most are like UW's or UCLA's. Constantly underperforming until the players lose faith in you. I don't think the players ever gave up on Doba, which actually made the transition to Wulff harder. There's no hard and fast way to measure discontent in the locker room, but based on the number of players jumping ship here, as opposed to UCLA or UW (so far), it's clear our players were not ready to make a wholesale change in all facets of what they did under Doba.
So does this absolve Wulff and staff from this year's results? I wouldn't make that argument. I would, however say that this combined with the injury situation this year makes a strong "mitigating circumstances" argument for the overall season.
Is this going to make anyone feel better about the season we just concluded? Again, I wouldn't say that. It does nothing to answer whether or not this staff can gameplan, make adjustments or manage a game as it progresses. It should, however, give us a bit of perspective on how we stack up, and why we are where we are.
Is there anything here that can give us any hope for the future? It depends on what perspective you want to take, but I would argue that there is, assuming Wulff and Co. can 1) upgrade the talent; 2) get them to/keep them on campus; and 3) develop them as players on and 4) off the field.
While it's always a work in progress, you can see we're upgrading the talent by what's already been shown on the field from our true frosh and a handful of rs frosh and true sophs. The attrition has been much closer to a "normal" curve than what we saw early in Doba's tenure. The thing to be seen is if the staff can develop the players. Off the field, I think they have. The kids packed on serious pounds, and are looking more like Pac10 football players. Three out of four is a darn good start. Now we've gotta see if they can develop them into playing like Pac10 football players.
This FanPost does not necessarily reflect the views of the site's writers or editors, who may not have verified its accuracy. It does, however, reflect the views of this particular fan, which is just as important as the views of our writers or editors.
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20 comments
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Comments
I have nothing beneficial to add
Just wanted to say great work!
by johnnycougar on Nov 30, 2009 4:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It really is spectacular, isn't it?
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 30, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Nuss
Can you shoot me an email?
I’m working on a story for a class about sports reporting and blogging and I wanted to ask you some questions about it since you have experience in both fields.
My email is james.wentz@email.wsu.edu
thanks
by ogoshcougs on Nov 30, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good work
“this combined with the injury situation this year makes a strong “mitigating circumstances” argument for the overall season."
Have you considered law school?
by spencer peaty on Nov 30, 2009 5:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I honestly never really thought that much about how the coaching change probably exacerbated things
I think the phrase “perfect storm” he used is perfectly apropos.
by Jeff Nusser on Nov 30, 2009 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It didn't dawn on me
Until I started grouping teams into loose categories, and I realized UW and UCLA have had the talent on paper, but both changed coaches in the last couple of years. The more I thought about the situations, and seeing the LACK of attrition at UCLA in the same period of time, the more it made sense.
by TiltingRight on Nov 30, 2009 7:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
kudos to you for doing this
… I basically did this for just USC and UW in the previous thread and can testify to what a pain in the butt it was.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
by Gekko Mojo on Nov 30, 2009 5:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I was originally going to look up the most underperforming teams in other major conferences (like Colorado) to see how we stack up to them, and still may, but like I said, I wanted to get this out before the season was put to bed. No one will want to read about why our football team sucked when we’re in a race to make the NCAAs in basketball.
Also, like you said, it’s a lot of work, and while it would be interesting to get a bigger sample size, I’m not sure it would illuminate all that much more.
by TiltingRight on Dec 1, 2009 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You and I were on the same page
When you originally said you were going to do this a few weeks ago, I was thinking that it would be nice if someone would look at the 2-3 most underperforming teams in each major conference. It would be more of an apples to apples comparison.
But, asking you to do all that was too much to ask of you, but since you brought it up…
by Coug1990 on Dec 1, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I recognize (I'm sure we all do)
that this is just a small part of the puzzle. My disclaimers mentioned that this metric doesn’t take talent into account… it only counts bodies. When you glean out some rankings and start grouping, you realize that on the high end of attrition talent seems to mitigate poor performance, and on the low end of attrition, coaching seems to.
This doesn’t do anything to measure that.
by TiltingRight on Dec 1, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I understood that
I was more commenting on that we were both on the same wavelength and that it would be nice to see the rates for schools in the same basic situation as WSU.
I am sure that everyone realizes the attrition numbers are not the same for WSU and USC even though both have had many players leave. It would be like saying a rose and a dandelion are both flowers.
You have done a great job again.
by Coug1990 on Dec 1, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent work
It’s nice to see some actual numbers to at least partially explain why things have sunk to such a low level the past few years.
by NW Pirate fan on Nov 30, 2009 7:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
awesome
Truly great research- many thanks. I have been trying to point out the youth attrition injury theme of Wulff’s tenure to date to Cougs. I agree with the mitigating circumstances comment 100%. Let’s get some upper class men on the field again and see how it goes w/ experienced kids. Go Cougs
If you can't Go Cougs... don't go.
by hollyweirdcoug on Nov 30, 2009 7:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Great work TR!
Appreciate the analysis. I think we’ll start coming out of this deep hole beginning next season. We won’t have a winning season mind you, but we’ll start seeing some tangible progress…even with a very tough Pac-10. Patience is a virtue as we all know.
by westsidecougar1 on Nov 30, 2009 9:40 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Nice Work TR!
Since this trend seems to be something that is long-term, I’m interested as to how this condition was either missed entirely or factored in (if at all!) to the hiring parameters pre-Wulff?? Didn’t someone have access , make the effort to evaluate the health of the ‘cadillac’ of the entire sports program, using something like this!?!?
Maybe they weighted it to the ‘recruiting’ side, (as in the need of…you’ve obviously pointed out that need) which most pro-PW fans see as his strength. But obviously it has been at the expense of game prep, game plans and game management. I believe this approach has come back to bite us in the collective butt as he and his D-2 staff have been schooled in the much bigger and faster Pac-10. I hope they can catch up and take the talent they are recruiting to the next level. If that doesn’t happen don’t feel bad for Wulff & staff (they’ve been paid handsomely) but for the student athletes who have endured these two aweful years.
Let’s give all the kids who have stayed with the program thru thick and thin the kudo’s they deserve and keep the Coug football program growing. PW now owns the entire program and can’t point to anyone else, in or out of the room, to assign blame too.
So get it done.
by Longtime Coug on Dec 1, 2009 12:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth....
I just ran some numbers taking out the graduating seniors and Eric Block (who may not be back due to ulcerative cholitis), and adding in Rankin, Buckley and Mastin. I also assumed a full 25 player class of 2010.
The scholly number goes from 67 to 83/85 (yay!), and while we’re actually getting younger because of Wulff eschewing JCs the last couple years, the numbers are getting back to normal.
06, 07 and 08 signees playing in 2010 = 37 (was 27 at the BEGINNING of this year… before Jeshua and Mackay left).
The percentage goes from 31.76% to 43.53% of our roster being made up of those 3rd, 4th and 5th year players.
If you figure all the new recruits redshirt and everyone else plays, we go from 49 players to 58, and from 57.65% to 68.24% of the roster being made up of non-first year players. For reference, that jumps us three spots in this year’s conference.
by TiltingRight on Dec 1, 2009 12:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I like your optimism
But don’t count those chickens yet…
by johnnycougar on Dec 1, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't saying that would make the difference
and we’d be jumping to the middle of the conference. Just saying that the bombed out crater in our recruiting landscape is finally passing. Having a full boat of scholarships bodes well for the future compared to what we’ve got this year.
Like I said, in actual age/physical maturity we get YOUNGER in 2010 compared to this year.
by TiltingRight on Dec 1, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I meant, don’t count on everyone returning and having a full scholarship class. As you’ve pointed out, the last few years have not been good to us in terms of injuries, dropouts and guys kicked off the team. I’d hope that Wulff is changing the culture, I’m just not sure we won’t have some of the same old problems with next year’s class.
by johnnycougar on Dec 1, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great Pic JohnnyCoug!
Jeez what a great picture that is,__ having the Coug fly over their “fire hydrant”!!!!! That has got to be a real kick in the crotch to any of your dawg acquaintances (no such thing as a dawg friend)! Like voting in Chicago,… do it early and often! I’d love Bone and boys to knock their b-ball team from their temporary lofty heights!
by Longtime Coug on Dec 1, 2009 4:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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