Screw you, classless Gonzaga fan
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 3, 2009 3:33 PM PST
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PrintI will have some of my own thoughts on last night's game before too long, but I just have to get this off my chest.
Last year, I went on a diatribe about just what it is that irritates me to no end about Gonzaga basketball fans. In short, it's pretty unbelievable how a program that's only been relevant for just over a decade -- you have no idea how many "true blue since 1996" Gonzaga fans there are -- could have so many people who think they are God's gift to the game of college basketball. It's an arrogance that goes beyond mere pride and is more or less completely unjustified given what they've actually tangibly accomplished on a national scale.
However, I refrained from such rhetoric this year. We enjoy a good relationship with the fellas over at The Slipper Still Fits, and I know most Coug fans don't feel the same way I do -- they generally root for the Zags when they don't play the Cougs. Besides, I was at the Portland regional last March, and the Zag fans were generally tolerable -- no less so than any other normal fan base with a handful of wackos.
Then, there was last night.
In a move that screamed, "Look at us! We're clever like those wacky Cameron Crazies!", I heard this coming over my television:
"CAS-TO CAN'T READ!" (clap, clap, clap clap clap)
And suddenly, everything I ever thought about Gonzaga fans came flooding back.
DeAngelo Casto is a kid who has made something of himself coming out of some amazingly tough circumstances. True, he had a difficult time qualifying out of high school, but he did. And, by all accounts, he's comported himself well in the classroom at WSU up until this point. He's also a well-spoken individual who has done nothing but work his tail off to become better since coming to Pullman. He's been a class act all the way.
Same can't be said for those Gonzaga fans. Of all the people to pick on, the elitist white private school students go ahead and choose the African-American kid whose parents were both dead by the time he was eight? And target his academic difficulties, which pretty much anyone in his circumstances would have had?
In that post last year, I compared Zag fans to Oregon fans. The comparison has never been so apt. What a completely classless thing to chant at that guy. It was far, far below the belt.
Maybe they're still mad that, after an amazing career at Ferris, he spurned Gonzaga to come to WSU because he wanted to play Pac-10 basketball. (Honestly shocking to most Gonzaga fans.) Maybe it's because he now calls Pullman his home -- not just where he goes to school, but home -- something many of us do when we go to school there. Maybe it's because their private school selves are just that out of touch with reality that they don't understand why that would be hurtful.
Whatever it is, it was inexcusable. And while I realize it was only a small segment of the population in that gym last night, all Gonzaga fans were sullied. It was an embarrassment to the school.
And before some Gonzaga fans come in here and get all self-righteous and claim it's not that big of a deal and nothing worse than anything WSU fans have ever done, just remember: The first strategy when you know you're wrong is to finger point and deflect attention somewhere else. This is about you, and you alone.
But if I were a betting man? I'd wager the Cougs will show you how a classy student section behaves next year.
P.S.: D, if you are reading this, know one thing -- we are all proud of the work you have done to get where you are at. Don't let that stuff get to you. You're one of us, and we love you. Once a Coug, always a Coug.
And let's beat the crap out of their team next year.
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great post
but Nuss to be fair to the zag fans, it is hard when you are raised by bozo’s and sheltered at your three thousand person school. you aren’t going to know how to act or think like a normal college student or adult.
There's etiquette to student section chants
Fair game:
Stupid crap a player has done: arrests (Mr. Heytfelt), on court incidents (Aaron Brooks), etc.
Humor (OJ’s guilty, a classic)
Pointing out the obvious (Love has butt sweat, anyone?)
Off-limits:
Racist or sexist (Oregon fans with love)
Personal attacks
Chanting phone numbers or family members phone numbers (Hello again, Oregon)
Look, I understand you want to get in their heads, but be creative. Chanting that stuff to a kid from that town who had a hard life but was, only two years ago, the toast of the town is messed up. The good student sections are ones that are creative and have fun with it, but don’t get dirty.
Working at a public school that is very much a "bubble"
I’ve spent time talking with kids about appropriate/not appropriate things for student sections. It seems that kids that have never experienced true hardship or don’t really understand different cultures and situations are likely to cross the line. I know that my students did last year, to the point of a school wide lecture on chants at basketball games.
Gonzaga students suffer from that same thing. There is plenty of stuff to make fun of WSU athletes for, wheat fields and the like, without crossing into areas that truly are aimed at tearing someone down for things they don’t control.
I suppose that's probably where most of my anger comes from
Maybe I should have put this in the post, but as an educator, I’m just unbelievably sensitive to any attacks on a kid’s ability to learn, or insinuations that somehow their academic past is a predictor of their academic future.
I’ve worked with kids like DeAngelo Casto. I’ve seen far too many of them fall to the wayside because of crap like what that chant implies. Seeing a kid like Casto succeed gives me hope that all the crap I put up with on a daily basis might just be worth it.
Yeah, I get that completely.
Started my career at an alternative high school. And a lot of problems with kids in their teenage years are amplified by the feeling that their peers don’t think they can do it, so they take on that persona.
At the end of the day, I might want a Gonzaga player to miss a shot, I don’t want to see a Gonzaga player (or any opponent) screw up their future and their opportunity to better themselves. I can’t support any student section, ours included, making those kind of attacks.
Casto's comments
Casto seems to be a tough physically and mentally. I don’t know where I heard or read it, but Casto even said that the Gonzaga fans were pretty rough. He said they got into some real personal things, even things from the past. They must have dug some dirt up on him, because he is from Spokane. It must have been pretty bad it Casto said something. All I can say is Bush League.
When the game is pretty tough. Don't you ever holler 'nuff, Show the world you have the stuff, Keep-a-goin. -Lone Star Dietz
Nuss may not, but WSU students that read this blog should
It will mean more to a GU student if it comes from a WSU student. I know your out there.
Otherwise, GU students will just see it as an old overly sensitive alumni that just doesn’t get what it’s like these days.
Dealing with teenagers, I can promise that will be the majority opinion. But from another peer at a different University it will carry more weight.
End of the Day
One of my mottos is, " The only person’s behavior I’m in charge of mine." At the end of the day, did I make choices that make me smile at that face in mirror after I wash my face and brush my teeth?" I would say Casto can do that. Chanting Zag fans…not so sure.
I think the important thing to remember in all of this
is that when they come here, not to sink to their level. sure, make fun of Spokane, make fun of the WCC, whatever. But don’t make fun of the kids’ personal lives. It’ll show our class, and their lack of it.
I root for GU
A lot of their fans are arrogant for absolutely no reason. Is GU considered a better school than WSU? I am sure it has some schools/departments that rate better but overall I would think an undergraduate degree is about the same if not better at WSU. I don’t think GUs Business school is accredited. Still, I have seen many GU people equate Gonzaga to Stanford.
About the Casto chants. They were pretty awful but Casto needs to brush them off. I can’t imagine how hard it would be to hear from your own home town but it is what it is. I do hope our students keep it “clean” but I honestly don’t know if that is the case.
I still root for GU especially this year. This years team is more of the type of team that I enjoyed watching a decade ago. They are pretty tough and play as a team. Last night was brutal but they took the game away from WSU.
As a fellow part time Zag fan
I also don’t understand the arrogance. People love GU because they are the underdog program that rose up. All the chest-pounding and trash talk doesn’t make you better than ucla or zona. It makes you childish. Remember where you came from.
by Grady Clapp on Dec 3, 2009 8:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
i think D has heard worse things in his life than "casto can't read"
but i’m still all about hating gonzaga.
Costo post
Wow. good post. As a GU fan in the 80s I recall throwing bananas at WSU baseball games and trying to figure out how to torment the players from the visiting teams. It was all about trying to win games and maybe being an influence as a a fan…
As a post college thinker, this was shallow and sometimes needed a gut check on reality.
Maybe your post will give some reason to “pause” on what they are really doing. Yelling at a kid on the court, doing damage to him maybe in his mind, is that worth a win ? Hell no. But maybe the chants make him stronger.
Please dont judge all GU’ers on a the actions of a few.
ok, i'll send you a picture of me in march
when I RUE THE DAY I MOCkED THE HUSKIES LOSING IN DECEMBER!!!!
are you new to the whole uw/wsu thing? we don’t want you to win….ever.
me too
this was drops in a bucket.
That's the problem.
Sure, if UW wins, it helps a little. But overall, the perception is that the Pac 10 still sucks.
CougCenter WSU's second main blog
oh and ps:
ALL pac-10 teams are “lesser pac-10 teams” this year.
WSU vs. UW
Okay well first of all, I have to say I was extremely happy when UW lost tonight…and I feel like they are WAY overrated in your conference, and WSU is WAY underrated in your conference, so yes it may have made the conference look weaker, but if WSU keeps playing like you all have been playing, then UW losing may help out in the long run! Besides the “lesser” pac-10 teams shouldn’t apply to WSU…you guys look much “better” than the Dawgs and with a lot more heart.
UW is going to be just fine
They need to get more out of Abdul Gaddy, and get some leadership issues sorted out. As I tweeted earlier tonight, I never thought I’d say this, but I think they really miss Dentmon right now.
Overton
I will say I was impressed with Overton tonight.
They're both having the best seasons of their careers.
They’re also not the type of players you corral.
Really?
You feel ok with IT’s 4-for-15?
Also, I take umbrage with the notion that Overton is “having the season of his career”
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/washington/venoy-overton
Looks pretty much like the other years, especially considering the terrible early season competition.
Venoy
9 points, 3 assists, 6 steals, 6 turnovers, 5 fouls.
Pretty normal night — positive contributions mitigated by numerous mistakes.
I'll take his performance tonight every day of the week
And twice on Sundays. His contributions were much more a positive than he was a negative.
I guess we'll have to just disagree on that one
Not sure how you can consider twice as many turnovers than assists a positive contribution from your point guard. Also, at least two of those steals fell into his lap.
At this point I think you can agree
No Husky fan will ever see Overton as anything other then a great contributor that brings passion and is a spark.
No non-husky will ever see him as anything other then a loose cannon as likely to start a brawl, make a horrible foul, turn it over at the wrong time, or take an ill advised shot as do anything positive.
I've been pretty critical of Overton throughout his career
And I’m not saying he’s without his faults, but in terms of what he does for the team, it’s a lot more than just the box score. He is a huge part of speeding up the game and getting teams to play into the UW style.
That Sucks....
For lesser teams. Luckily were no in that category :)
by crimson and gray on Dec 3, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions
Wow
NOT in that category. My joke back fired and made me look like an idiot
by crimson and gray on Dec 3, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
I agree
With everything you say! First about Gonzaga fans. I hate them on a level that is just below UW. It is somewhat comparable. I guess growing up in Spokane as a diehard Coug will do that to you.
Then I also agree about Dee. They should have been somewhat respectful to what he did in Spokane. I went to Ferris with him and he has battled things those pricks in the student section could only dream about.
I think one thing that really bothers me is that there are people in that crowd that went to high school with him and they did nothing to stop the chants.
by crimson and gray on Dec 3, 2009 7:04 PM PST reply actions
Casto Didn't deserve that
As a very proud graduate of Gonzaga University class of 2008, I feel horrible that this was said, I think it was mean, cruel even, and totally against the spirit of the game and I am sorry he was treated with so much disrespect. WSU played a terrific game yesterday and have the markings of having a terrific year and I wish them, and Casto the best of luck.
On the other side, I hope that you all do not take this out on EVERY GU fan, we are not all like that. In my tenure as a student, there were a few games where the chanting got out of hand, but for the most part it was in the spirit of being a proud college basketball school, we are very passionate, proud fans and for the most part we respect the other teams. The action of a few should not dictate the hatred of an entire student body. We hate UW, but we in no way hate WSU. I think almost every fan I know has great respect for the WSU program.
OH and on a last note, Gonzaga’s school of business has an AACSB accreditation, which is given to less than 10% of business schools across the world…
Again, sorry about the disrespect to Casto, it was unfortunate, sad, upsetting, and very hurtful.
I think most of us realize not to paint everyone with a broad brush
It as likely most of the fans were just fine. Sometimes there is groupthink going on as well. I appreciate you coming on hear and being respectful of the situation and not trying to justify what occurred. You’re all right in my book.
Great Work Nuss
Great Work Nuss! I missed this while watching the game. Its too bad that a great effort by two teams has to be overshadowed by the behavior of the fans. I don’t think that WSU students do this. The closest thing I have seen is the Sucks! chant during visiting lineups. I would like to see the Zuu Crew cut that out. I have kind of been a hit and miss Gonzaga fan. Growing up in Spokane and going to camps with Santanglo and those guys when I was in high school, then playing high school ball with Morrison I have tended to root for them, but I am not sure I can now. Last year’s team drove me crazy, they played like a bunch of prima donnas. Casto seems to be a great kid who has taken his talent and used it as chance to turn his life around. I am an educator and like you his story has to give kids hope. Go Cougs. Stay Classy.
Screw You, Classless Fan - Everywhere!
Yup, I went to Gonzaga. I flew from Phoenix to Seattle and drove to Pullman with the biggest Cougar fan I know to see GU Play the Cougs on your court last year. I had a blast at the Coug after the game with some great fans. I cheer for my team and was upset when we were down 15 last night on our floor in our house. AS YOU WERE LAST YEAR. Excuses for poor taste in cheers… none.
However, to blame this on GU fans as if they are the worst is pathetic. Everyone is to blame in letting this happen and it is not isolated to a team or a program. From the Cameron Crazies to the Kennel, the WSU crowd is no better than a GU crowd in being ‘tasteful’ in their cheers. Are you going to tell me every cheer was ‘tasteful’ towards Josh Heytvelt last year? Is it different than Castro, perhaps, but is it personal and a tasteless attempt to get in someone’s head, HELL YES. We are all to blame for tolerating this in sports.
My only consolation in your one sided article is that you hold us to a higher standard than perhaps you do other teams and for that I am proud and take on your challenge. I will strive to be better in my cheers and to hold my team up rather than push your players down. I encourage you all to consider what that might be like and the impact it could have if we all remember what ‘sportsmanship’ really means.
And if it makes any difference at all, congrats to your Coug team for pushing us to the limit last night. I thought you had the game and was impressed by the way your team played. Honor to the 509 and I wish you all the best in the Pac-10. When you come to Tempe, I’ll be cheering for you.
thank you for typing it...
…so i didn’t have to.
Welcome to college basketball everyone. If you can’t handle teasing I suggest you find another sport.
That isn't teasing.
Teasing is good natured. Personal attacks are a completely different thing. There is a line, and some fans crossed it. I root for Gonzaga whenever they aren’t playing the Cougs, and I don’t hold their entire fanbase accountable. However, if you can’t identify the line between teasing a player (Love has butt sweat was by far my favorite) tearing him down personally, I’m sorry for you.
by displacedcoug on Dec 3, 2009 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you for missing the point
Teasing is one thing. Make fun of a players on court antics. Count at the line if he takes too long to shoot a free throw. Tease them about stupid stuff they’ve done. Why do you think Oregon got lit up by the national media and their own school for what they did to Love? Was that teasing?
Would you chant Love’s a homo? Would you ask Nick Young where his brother is? Would you tease a kid who lost both parents and bounced around through foster families and had academic troubles, yet made it into college and turned into a hell of a player? If you would I’d suggest you find another sport.
When a player has to answer question about what the fans said after a game, the fans messed up. It has no place in the game and it sure as hell isn’t a part of college basketball. Do it classy, or don’t do it at all.
by Brian Floyd on Dec 3, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Heyfelt
I see Heytfelt as a different case. He did something that he alone was responsible for. An arrest for rolling around Cheney with shrooms and weed the night before a game is inexcusable. That was something I personally don’t feel is off limits.
That said, he lit WSU up after fans started chanting mush-rooms, so there’s that.
Dee just posted this article
On his facebook. Good work Nuss, way to make a difference!
by crimson and gray on Dec 4, 2009 10:35 AM PST reply actions
One more thing...
I guess he CAN read!
by crimson and gray on Dec 4, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
I know I'm late to the part on this
My internet has been down this week so I just read this, but I just wanted to mention something.
I know its wrong to group all fans together based on the action of few, and i’m not going to do that. But when I watched this game at a Ballard sports bar there were two Gonzaga fans watching the game a few seats down from me at the bar. The were, bar none, the most offensive, and obnoxious sports fans I have EVER seen. They continually made racist remarks against WSU players, and went on and on about how stupid someone must be to go to WSU despite me wearing a WSU shirt and sitting two seats away from them.
At half time I wanted to leave and go to a different bar, but the girl I was with had just ordered another drink and she didn’t want to drink it that fast, so we ended up just moving to a different seat in the bar.
Again just because these two were horrible doesn’t mean all Gonzaga fans are bad, but when you start to notice a pattern of Gonzaga fans being particularly offensive maybe some of the reasonable fans should try to talk to the offensive ones into toning it down a bit. You guys want to be known for stellar basketball not a-hole fans.
Newsflash to Gonzaga folks
Your school is not hard to get into. Your law school isn’t even that hard to get into. Just because you are private and pay more money doesn’t mean you are smarter. I would counter them saying that people are “stupid” for going to WSU by saying they are stupid for paying that much for an undergrad degree without the prestige to back it up.
CougCenter WSU's second main blog
A bit much?
Let’s recap: I’ve had my school called elitist, white (potentially racist), sheltered, over the top, and stupid for paying that much money to go there.
This is all in response to probably six students reading an article saying that Catso was having trouble passing his ACT and that was a main reason why his recruitment wasn’t bigger. Said kids took that chant, turned it in to a common chant for “not-so-smart” high school kids and it spread like wildfire through the student section. Look, I understand the frustration and I know what DeAngelo has gone through but to think that this is something only Gonzaga fans do is so ridiculous that I might think that WSU fans are sheltered. It’s indicative of student sections across the nation. From the Cameron Crazies to the Izzone to the Oakland Zoo, student sections are in this competition to see can be the loudest and give their team an advantage. Sometimes it goes over the top like in this case. I’m sorry this happened and that it affected DeAngelo but the same thing happened to Jeremy Pargo at times when he went on the road and it literally happens all…over…the…country. I’m not deflecting blame off Gonzaga fans, I’m stating the truth.
As for the people in the bar, I think you just caught a few d-bag Gonzaga fans that had too many beers that night and saw a few WSU shirts and decided to run their mouths. For many years I thought that every team i rooted for had immaculate fan bases. When I went to Denver Broncos games in Oakland and Kansas City, I always said "thank god our fans aren’t like this’. When I went to Colorado games in Nebraska and Texas I said the same thing and when I went to Gonzaga NCAA Tournament games and had run ins with other fans, I said the same thing. Then I grew up. Every fan base has their fair share of d-bags, front runners, or just drunkies. I’d like to tell you that I haven’t been an over the top fan but that wouldn’t be true. I think that for the most part, Gonzaga fans have HUGE respect for WSU. We always enjoy playing them and when Gonzaga doesn’t play them, we’re rooting for you.
It was a bad chant done by probably a few drunk KC kids that didn’t read the rest of DeAngelo’s story.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Yes, probably a bit much.
And I apologize for that. I’m a bit sensitive to the notion that private schools are better simply because they are private schools.
CougCenter WSU's second main blog
No apology necessary
and I really tried hard to not respond to this post but I’m human and have my breaking point. It’s important to have perspective in these matters. I understand that this is a rivalry game and that everything is magnified but I feel like the original post and some of the comments lack as much perspective as the chant against DeAngelo did.
The insinuations of racism, elitism, or anything else being a factor in this chant has really stuck in my side as a Gonzaga alum.
The Slipper Still Fits - SB Nation's home for the Gonzaga Bulldogs!
Zach, most of us do not want to paint all Zag fans with a broad brush
I am sure most of the crowd was well behaved.
However, from what I have read, the chant is not what upset Casto. There were Gonzaga fans behind the bench that were getting really personal about his tragic younger life.
everybody crosses lines
As a GU student I can say many of us are avid fans of WSU athletics while we are not competing with you. I speak for many students, not all but a good number, when I apologize for our behavior during the game. Our insults were not appropriate and we acknowledge that and as a school we will rise above this in future games. However, insulting us because of where we go to school, and how much we pay to go there has absolutely no relevance to the situation. As a “predominately white” university you may have noticed a good chunk of our team is african american. We are not a racist university and just because we pay more money for our education does not make us better than you or anybody else. As a student body we work hard for where we get just as much as anywhere else. Again I apologize for our behavior it was completely inappropriate, and I can say the Kennel Club has been very severe in our treatment of these issues. We pride ourselves on our intensity and passion for our team, but we did cross a line.
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