OVERREACTION POSTGAME THREAD: Back to the drawing board
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 5, 2009 8:29 PM PST
in Cougar Basketball
36 comments
Follow us on Twitter @CougCenter and me @NussCoug.
Well, that didn't go as planned.
However, I would caution all of you against overreacting to what you just witnessed. We told you before the season started that there would be nights like this. We told you there'd be nights where they look like they could play with anyone (Gonzaga for 32 minutes) and nights where they look like a mess (tonight).
This is a young team coming off a tough loss that was playing in a hostile environment against a team that is incredibly talented but had yet to play up to its potential. And, oh by the way, our young guys are in their first year under a new coach who, incidentally, looks at basketball from a completely different perspective than the previous coach.
Sure, there are reasons to be concerned. Klay Thompson looks as if he might be starting to believe his own myth. Our inability to find shooters in defensive sets is perplexing, especially considering that Bone's defense is supposed to give up fewer open 3s than Tony Bennett's did.
But don't start making sweeping conclusions from this game, unless you want to conclude that our front line is not tall or big enough (something we already knew) or that turnovers are bad (also something we already knew) or that Klay still has work to do (also something we already knew). That we'd be seeing something appreciably different if Bennett was still the coach is simply not true.
Some of the flaws we can't change, but the mistakes you're seeing are correctable, and it just takes time. Our defense will learn how to get out on shooters. Klay will learn how to deal with the extra attention he's getting. Just be patient.
Keep the faith. Win against Idaho on Wednesday, and you've got a pair of cupcakes after that before playing a beatable LSU team. After that? Oregon and Oregon State at home.
Lose to Idaho and it will be officially time to worry. But until that happens, try to keep this in perspective. It's a long season.
0 recs |
36 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Bad day
All the hometown teams lost and UW won.
The only good thing I am taking out of today is that Locker had such a good game today he leaves for the NFL.
by spokanecougar on Dec 5, 2009 8:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i think it's possible
to think we’re a mediocre basketball team and not be “worried”
by BigWood on Dec 5, 2009 8:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What I was driving at is that if you thought this team was going to be pretty good after the first seven games
There’s no reason to change your mind after tonight.
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 5, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fair point
i think we’re young and are going to have terrrrrrrrible stretches. i don’t think that’s an indication the coach or the players are failing though.
remember how shocked everyone was after the first half of the gonzaga game? the reason you were shocked is because it’s this team’s exception, not the rule. last night was the rule.
fortunately, the pac-10 is terrible too.
by BigWood on Dec 6, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
i think we’re young and are going to have terrrrrrrrible stretches. i don’t think that’s an indication the coach or the players are failing though.
Perfectly said.
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 6, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not time to overreact
… WSU coaches just haven’t developed a reliable second scorer yet. I’m pretty sure that will come.
UW lost to Portland to start the season last year and still went dancing.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
by Gekko Mojo on Dec 6, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tough game to watch...
“That we’d be seeing something appreciably different if Bennett was still the coach is simply not true.”
Objection your honor….speculation.
(I realize that that is what we do on message boards too).
Anyway, I’d like to see some semblance of team D…and players who play within themselves…and an offense that looks like it has a purpose. Protecting the ball a little would be nice to see as well.
I’ll wager now that we will not even finish in the top 100 in adjusted team D according to KenPom this season.
Any takers?
Take a look at PSU’s numbers under Bone before making the bet. The committment has to start with Bone. Doesn’t do any good if Johnson is a holdover from the prior staff and was supposedly a defensive guru (or something like that).
by westsidecougar1 on Dec 5, 2009 8:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
D wasn't great, but it wasn't even close to the problem. Pretty hard to defend
when opposing team is constantly able to push the ball because of TOs.
I don’t think we are going to see another high tempo/physical presence again this season, but I am concerned about how we handled it. Moore was clearly able to take his guy to the hoop, but we rarely had him do it. UW is going to play us this way, and we need them reacting by pushing the ball at them.
I still don’t know what TB was thinking about for his 4 position this yr. As I watch Lod and Kop just get man handled I just scratch my head. Let’s see if there is about a 6-5 250 WSU student that we can get to walk on.
by ptowncoug3012 on Dec 5, 2009 9:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point about the TOs...and how the 4 position is...
untenable.
However, there are aspects that I’m very disappointed about with our team defense. Namely, the perimeter defense.
I still think the defense is the major problem…along with the TOs…and of course, the rebounding.
TB did us no favors with the lack of big men in our lineup now.
by westsidecougar1 on Dec 5, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't have it both ways
First off, our offense is No. 2 nationally in adjusted efficiency. Just because they don’t look great in a halfcourt set doesn’t mean we don’t have a purpose. If you’d like to explain to me how ypou think the offense would even be approaching that under Bennett, I’d love to hear it. Because the way that they look in Bone’s halfcourt offense — which is very similar to Bennett’s halfcourt offense — doesn’t lead me to that conclusion. Also, you have to remember they’d be doing it without Reggie Moore.
Second, I don’t think it’s fair to point to Bone’s defensive numbers at PSU without putting them in context. His teams finished in the Top 3 in adjusted defense in the Big Sky in three of his four years, including second in 2005-06 and 2007-08. I think that’s a more fair way to look at it. In fact, only once in the four years that he was there did any team in the Big Sky finish in the top 100 in adjusted defensive efficiency.
The goal is to win games, not to finish as high in adjusted defensive efficiency as possible. After all, we were sixth in adjusted defensive efficiency last year, and look what that got us. So he’s playing to this team’s strengths at the moment, trying to get them to score points. The defense will come, but it will never be like it was under Bennett. And I think that’s OK.
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 5, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's right...
The ultimate goal is to win games.
At WSU, I believe the formula for winning starts with tough D. Bone had the advantage at PSU of recruiting better athletes than other Big Sky schools (I think the location where he coached helped with that). Their quickness and athleticism helped him relative to other Big Sky schools with respect to defense to a large degree. He will likely not be able to “out-athlete” other teams in the Pac-10.
As you say, we were sixth in adjusted defense in the Pac-10. What did it get us? Seventh place! So that is my point. If we don’t have a strong defense, we will likely not perform well in the conference. At WSU, it starts with defense. Also, don’t you think other Pac-10 teams will know how to significantly hinder KT’s offensive production?
by westsidecougar1 on Dec 6, 2009 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um, no
To say “it starts with defense” at any school is just not true. It depends wholly on the coach and his particular personnel. If you don’t believe Bone will be able to recruit the sorts of players he needs to be “offense first,” then I think you have a legitimate argument. But he’s already got some very good pieces in place. There’s never been a coach at WSU who’s had these kinds of players, so we just don’t know if an offensive-minded coach can be successful long term.
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 6, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with your argument
is that all of the advantages that you said Bone had at PSU would have been true for every coach that coached there. Yet, no coach had the success that Bone had. HIs success at PSU is so much more than what you are giving him credit for.
by Coug1990 on Dec 6, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haliday already has a nicer ball than lobster
by BigWood on Dec 5, 2009 8:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
After a year with Sturdy, that will be changed
by Coug1990 on Dec 5, 2009 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That
Was pretty funny.
In a painful kind of way
by ClosetCoug on Dec 5, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The frightful thing is
that after two years, I am not sure if I was joking or telling the truth
by Coug1990 on Dec 5, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good news!
There’s obviously still a chance Sturdy doesn’t come back.
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 5, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Nuss
The Cougars are terrible. They can’t shoot. They can’t play defense. Klay is overrated. Coach Bone is the worse coach in the Pac 10 and the basketball team should be ashamed of itself.
They are the Pac 10’s worse team by far. I mean look at what the Pac 10 did today.
Georgia Teck 79, USC 53
Missouri 106, Oregon 69
How dare WSU lose 86-69
I bet Ernie Kent can’t wait to coach against Ken Bone
by Coug1990 on Dec 5, 2009 8:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Can't respect someone who wrote "Teck" instead of "Tech"
Unless this is some sort of convoluted reverse jinx.
by evanr on Dec 5, 2009 9:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't respect any 'supposed' coug fan that hopes the Ducks beat us. What is up with that?!
by JimtheCoug on Dec 6, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
oh. . .I read further down and. . .well, I over-reacted to 1990's post.
I guess I just have a knee jerk reaction when anyone wants the Ducks to beat us. I can’t stand those Ducks.
by JimtheCoug on Dec 6, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
C1990, at first I thought you were serious, then I read it again. We can’t accurately rate Bone or this team right now with any accuracy. I’m not sure what everyone expected, but we are going to be up and down for most of this season. Would the games have looked different if Bennett were here? Sure they would. Would the wins and losses be different? Unlikely.
I am not, by nature, and optimist, but I am still very excited about these players over the coming seasons and I’m still excited about Bone being the coach. Could he totally screw up and be a loser, sure, but I’m far from drawing any conclusions. The way some folks talk about Bone like he’s at Graham is stupid. I also think it is pretty sad that people are still crying about Bennett, he’s gone, get over it.
by PDXCoug95 on Dec 5, 2009 8:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I was being sarcastic
Sometimes teams have games like this. It wasn’t pretty, but it was one game. I have learned over the years not to give too much weight to any one game. If keeps on happening for the next 5-10 games, then we will know.
The Kent comment gave me away, didn’t it? :)
by Coug1990 on Dec 5, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No one is like Graham. He gets a special....
place in the annals of horrific coaches at WSU.
Yes, TB is gone. He won’t be back as our coach. Ever. However, it is only natural to compare and contrast this style/results with what he did or would perhaps have done. There is no getting away from that…and there is nothing wrong with doing that. It is not “sad”. It is just the way humans are.
I will be happy when I see solid team D. Can we finish in the “top 100” in KenPom’s rankings in that category? Inquiring minds need to know.
by westsidecougar1 on Dec 5, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tony is currently 4-3 at Virgina
WSU is 6-2. I think both teams are taking a while to adjust to the new coaching styles.
by Coug1990 on Dec 5, 2009 9:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do we NEED to finish in the top 100 in defense?
I think that’s debatable.
by Jeff Nusser on Dec 5, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We played some solid team D in the first half against Gonzaga.
Do you really think that was an accident? I’m sure at halftime Bone told them to stop playing D like that because the last thing he wants is one of his teams to have a defensive efficiency in the top 100 on Kenpom!
by 907coug on Dec 5, 2009 10:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys...don't miss the point...
Also, just remember this discussion as the season progresses.
I am a big WSU basketball fan, so I hope I’m wrong.
I just don’t see good coaching and on-court disciplined play.
by westsidecougar1 on Dec 6, 2009 8:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't think...
Paul Wulff is preparing a similar place in Cougar Annals as that of Paul Fraham?
by Pman on Dec 6, 2009 12:37 AM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Cougs
I know you’re frustrated after this performance, so I won’t bother with any hollow congratulations, but good luck on the rest of the season. Even if he had a tough game — and still scored 22 points — Klay Thompson struck me as a pretty good player.
Anyway, best of luck the rest of the way.
We'll carry the banner high!
Bring On The Cats
by TB on Dec 5, 2009 9:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Like new style
I loved TB, but I really like watching this new style of basketball. TB was so predictable it was boring. (Yes, I know he won that way and it kept us in games) We already have more highlights this year than all of Bennett’s years at WSU (a little exaggeration). I like Nuss’s comment above about Reggie Moore. I couldn’t imagine TB coaching this year and trying to do it without a player like Reggie Moore. I think the kid is already as good as Rochestie, if not better. I love his aggressiveness and the fact that he tries to dunk on people larger than him. He sets a good tone out there. I think Thompson would not be playing this well if TB was still here. TB killed players confidence offensively. Thompson always looked frustrated in TB’s offense and was often shaking his head because he played bad. It is because he could only get 10 attempts a game. He only shot 31 free throws last year, TB should have found ways to get him to the line more. I know Thompson didn’t play well tonight, but he still got 22. He is learning to score in a variety of ways and still get his points (credit to Bone). This team has a lot of fight in them and will be fun to watch. I am tired of talking about TB and I think Bone is a great coach and will recruit some athletic, legit players. The guy won 20+ games back to back years at Portland State…Yes, Portland State. O ya, he went to the NCAA tourney in his final 2yrs and TB went to the NCAA and NIT in his last 2yrs. TB lived a little off his Dad’s success. I know TB lost Weaver, Cowgill and Low (his dad’s recruits), but he should have been reloading, that is a sign of a good coach…recruiting and continuing what you have done.
I am not worried about Bone and what this team will do in the future.
When the game is pretty tough. Don't you ever holler 'nuff, Show the world you have the stuff, Keep-a-goin. -Lone Star Dietz
by SoCalCoug on Dec 6, 2009 12:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree, I love Bone.
But to be fair to Tony (heresy, I know), he actually was the one who truly recruited Low, Weaver, and Cowgill.
That said, I completely agree that Ken Bone will have great success at WSU. I just hope he stays.
by displacedcoug on Dec 6, 2009 5:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Community Guidelines
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
