SMPG: Can we actually do this?
Andy Katz, today:
Washington State can't get an at-large berth. But the Cougars now believe they have as much a shot as anyone to win the Pac-10 tournament in Los Angeles.
We all know we need to win the Pac-10 tournament to go to the NCAA tournament. We also know there's the nice bonus of "Pac-10 Conference Champion" to go along with that (although it's debatable if the regular season champ or the tournament champ is the "real" champion of the conference. I'd go with the former).
Anyway, there is one key thing we can do in the remainder of the regular season that would put us in the best possible position for the conference tournament.
I'm talking about earning the #7 seed.
They way the conference tournament is structured, the first day of the tourney features the 7th through 10th seeds battling it out to bring the tournament's number down to eight. The six seed gets a bye this day, and receives the added bonus of not having to face the #1 seed, potentially, until the tournament final. We're not getting the six seed. I'll explain why in a moment.
If the season ended today we'd be the #8 seed, and face #9 Stanford for the right just to play the #1 seed, Washington. That isn't good. If you can, in any tournament, you want to avoid the #1 seed. By making it to the other side of the bracket, we potentially allow someone else to beat the #1 seed before we have to. As sweet as it would be to slay the Huskies in the conference tourney, if we can avoid them, I'm all for it. The #6 or #7 seed might achieve that.
So - we are currently a game and a half behind USC for 6th place. Actually, make it two and a half games because we lost both head-to-head matchups against them. USC has four games left, and it's a pretty easy stretch: the trip to the Bay Area, and then home for the Oregon schools. We have to hope USC falls flat on their faces down the stretch - I'm talking 1-3 in four games to finish . That's not likely. It also means we'd have to win all three remaining games to surpass them. Also not likely.
The top six are pretty well locked in. Ahead of USC is Arizona, who is already 8-5 in conference. They need to win one game to bury us, and even though their final five are tough, they will most likely get at least that.
What we can do is pass Oregon State for seventh. We are only 1 game behind the Beavers in the standings, and have split the season series. But we have the edge in the tie-break, which is record against the top teams in the conference going down from #1. We already have wins against ASU, UCLA, and could potentially get Washington. OSU's only win in the top five is against Cal, and they've already been swept by ASU, Washington and Arizona. Even if they beat UCLA on 3/5, we still have the edge.
OSU has all three remaining games on the road. At Oregon, at UCLA and at USC. That's huge for us. The only game I see them winning is at Oregon, and I have a feeling the Ducks will be motivated to defend their home court and finally get a get a second Pac-10 win. OSU could potentially lose all three, but most likely will go 1-2. That means all we have to do is win one or two of our final three games and we're in business. Easier said than done, but with the Arizonas at home and UW on the road, I feel all three are winnable.
So - if we pass OSU we earn the 7th seed and a first round game against the ne'er-do-well Ducks. Win that, and we most likely get a second round game against an ASU or UCLA team we've already beaten. Win that, and you get an equivalent semifinal game. Win that, and you've given yourself just one game to try and win the title.
It would be extremely hard for us to win the Pac-10 tournament. We'd have to win four games, and we'd have to get help along the way. I don't think we're going to do it. But we can dream.
And as we saw yesterday, this team is capable of beating anyone in the conference.
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A few things
Our goal is definitely 7th – not just for possible chances of a PX tourney title but also a more winnable game in case we are at the edge of the NIT bubble. Oh btw Oregon did win yesterday so they are over that particular hump. Still think we’d beat them again though!
I didn’t realize OSU had that remaining schedule – good news for us for sure. I hope we can make the most of this upset and go on a tear like we didn’t do after beating ASU.
I thought it was interesting that you have a lot of optimism in some cases but not a lot in other cases. You said that @UW was a winnable game (I agree) but also say you want to avoid UW in the tournament, a neutral site. I guess it doesn’t make much difference to me if we end up against UW or UCLA or ASU in the tourney, we’re going to have to have an outstanding offensive night against any of those teams to advance.
Dream scenario for us imho: 7th vs. Oregon, play 2nd place ASU (I wish!), then play USC (upsetting UCLA), then the final against Arizona (upseting UW). Well, really if OSU could make it to the final game against us then that would be best, but I guess I was going for dream scenario which might conceivably happen.
Tony Bennett for Heisman!
Thanks
I had just assumed Oregon lost yesterday. Whoops.
Also, I’m only somewhat confident about UW @ Hec Ed because we’ve won the last three there. Also, since the #1 seed hasn’t been wrapped up yet, it could be anyone. Odds are it will be the hottest team down the stretch, and if it’s UW, UCLA or whomever we should steer clear. But yeah, I do contradict myself there.
My ultimate dream scenario is to play the purple puppies...
in the Pac-10 Tournament final and beat them. My heart would probably not survive the stress though.
Scary thing is that we could very well lose the next three games. I don’t think we will (KenPom has us beating Zona…barely…and losing the other two)…but we could go back to our old ways. Yikes.
We need the freshman to continue to step up. Forrest needs to continue to be our third option from the outside too. Sounds easy, eh?
by westsidecougar1 on Feb 22, 2009 4:02 PM PST reply actions
Notwithstanding yesterday's win,
you have to prefer playing Washington on a neutral floor to UCLA in a semi-home game. I suppose ASU could get the #2 seed, but one of the keys to that happening is for them to beat WSU…
Incidentally, not that it’s a likely scenario, but I actually think WSU would get an at-large bid if the Cougs win their remaining 3 regular season games and a conference tournament game. 4 blue-chip road/neutral wins (ASU, Washington, UCLA on the road, a good team on a neutral floor in the tournament) would be hard to overlook. Given the state of the bubble, even 3 wins might be enough if they’re the right 3 wins.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Good point
The committee tends to favor hot teams coming into the tournament as well.
by Craig Powers on Feb 22, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions
Good points
Though I’ll say that a one point win in Pauley and a two point loss in Pullman show that we aren’t as far off of UCLA as we may think – at least we match up well with them.
I know it was early in the season when we played UW, but we really were overmatched and didn’t look to be in it after a few minutes into the 2nd half. I hope we play better in a couple weeks but I’m not super confident. I think we’d do better against UCLA in the tournament than UW.
If we actually could win our last three games we have a decent shot at an at-large, per your points. But while “hot streak” bonus points do go into the committee’s calculations, I think it would take a large amount of bubble mania going on elsewhere to get us in. Sure, we’d have three excellent road wins but we also have many losses to other bubble teams, like Gonzaga, USC, and Cal.
Tony Bennett for Heisman!
by johnnycougar on Feb 22, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions
Don't see it happening
This team, and these players, are EXTREMELY streaky. We’ve seen how bad this team is when Klay, TR, and Baynes are cold. But we’ve seen how good they are when those players are hot. These change every game. If we can streak to the 7 seed, we can play literally anyone against the Ducks, but I can’t see us putting together 3 straight against, more than likely, the 2 seed, the 3 seed, and the one seed. I mean, hell, we’ve only won three in a row in conference once this year, against Oregon, Ore. St. and Stanford, the 3 worst in the conference, excluding the Cougs.
Maybe it’s just my typical Cougar Pessimism peeking out, but I just can’t see this team rattling out 7 straight, or even 5/6 of 7, to make it to the NCAA’s. I hope that this game was truly a turning point and the team doesn’t look back from here. I hope this team proves me wrong. GO COUGS!
I wish the committee would stop using RPI
and find something more relevant, like KenPom. RPI is not nearly as strong at predicting outcomes, and isn’t that what the committee is trying to do when making their selections and seedings? I’m probably just ranting about this because the Cougs are ranked 45 on kenpom and 101ish in RPI. But still, RPI sucks.
Sorry, I tried the fanpost and Fanshot and I'm not smart enough
But, I wondering if anyone can give me some advice on the cougar game in Dogville, I’ve never been and any advice on tickets, seats, parking, etc is appreciated, and again sorry I could post this somewhere more appropriate.
Pac 10 champ
has to be the #1 team after the 18 game schedule. Every team has played each other twice, it is way more accurate than a 4 day tournament. I think the winner of that can have the title of Pac 10 tournament champ, that is what the banners usually say.
I have not yet read the article, but can we really not get an at-large?
Unlikely, maybe, but if we win out and then pull off a couple wins in the tournament, an at-large is impossible?
Definitely possible.
That would put us at about 19-14 with wins over ASUx2, UA, UCLA on the road, UW on the road, plus a win over one of those four teams on a nuetral site. Doing that would atleast get us in the conversation and if other teams slip up, we could slide in. It is a longshot, but atleast there is still a chance! More than you can say for a lot of Coug basketball years.
by Craig Powers on Feb 23, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
I think if we win our final three, plus our first round game ...
I think we’ve got a legit argument. Had we held on against USC and OSU, we’d be even more in the mix, but I think we still have a strong case if we finish the year 3-0 plus a first-round win in the Pac-10 Tournament.
Tournament
I think any school other than Oregon and Oregon State are capable of winning the tournament.
I really think the Coug’s are playing there best basketball right now and could do it because of there defensive style. Playing WSU is a changeup that is tough to adjust to.
I hope you are right!
Unlike our close loss against UCLA in Pullman and our upset of ASU, our entire team played out of their minds on Saturday. Rochestie’s effort was certainly amazing but the overall ball movement and motion on offense allowed him to dominate. In the other games, it was Forrest going crazy and Klay becoming unconcious from outside. So hopefully this big team win indicates we are finally figuring this thing out. We will see on Thursday!
Tony Bennett for Heisman!
by johnnycougar on Feb 23, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
I would love to see the Coug’s win the tournament but winning three in row will be pretty tough for anyone this year. That being said someone is going to do it. I think Arizona, USC, or WSU may be the one’s to do it. Urgency in such a blanced league may be the ultimate weapon.
by John Berkowitz on Feb 23, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
Now would be the perfect time...
for Kopravica and Harmeling to make a statement. For us to get to the tournament, we’re going to need contributions from everyone, but these two guys could really make a significant difference. There’s still a lot of basketball left to play, so it’s not out of the question. We know they’re capable.
Go Cougs!!!

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