Credit where credit is due
by Grady Clapp on Mar 7, 2009 5:06 PM PST
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PrintTrust me, I'm feeling a lot of the same things all of you are at the moment.
Most notably, the fact that Capers and Casto, two players that could have had a huge impact for us down the stretch, were left sitting on the bench to watch. Capers could've prevented a lot of the things Isaiah Thomas did offensively, and Casto could've provided the athleticism we needed to get to the line and rebound.
But still, this shouldn't be shocking. UW beat us the way UW beats everybody - getting to the free throw line and rebounding like crazy.
The good news going forward is that next year, Tony's hand will be forced. He'll have to play Marcus and DeAngelo if he wants his team to have a fighting chance in a game like this.
We found out today that, in a lot of ways, we are who we thought we were. That is, a very good team with moments of brilliance - but just not good enough. That's tough to stomach, but it is what it is. This is a possible NIT team that must win the Pac-10 tournament to make the Big Dance. Close doesn't count. It's a shame this team doesn't play horseshoes, or hand grenades.
But at least we got our shots in, and at least we served notice to the higher-ups in this conference that you don't take Washington State lightly. I'm surprised the Husky fans legitimized our team by rushing the court (although I'm sure their fans will tell you it has more to do with the conference title then the win over their rival).
As for Washington, they are the champions of this conference. They earned it. There were numerous possessions where we played perfect defense, but Pondexter and Co. just made ridiculous shots anyway. Shots that good teams make.
So - credit where credit is due. Washington is a good basketball team.
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My hat's off to them....
We had that 1953 $h#@ stuffed down our throat all broadcast long, so nobody should ever forget that date. It only took them what, 55 / 56 years to get it done? Kudos to them.
I’m really curious to see how they do in Portland, in front of their home crowd, but with neutral officials. I don’t know quite what to expect. Good luck to them, I guess. It won’t matter to me one way or the other how they fare, to be honest. I want to see them play Gonzaga in the second round though. I keep hearing about that matchup, and the distinct possibility of it happening. The bracket experts know more about it than I do.
I want another shot at the U of Me, I think we can beat them in LA.
And credit coming back your way
WSU has a quality squad this year. I’m rooting for you guys to get the 7th seed, as playing the OSU/Stanford winner is a lot more enticing to me than playing the WSU/Stanford winner.
http://www.spartyandfriends.com/
It was a very good game.
I never really appreciated Forrest (and in retrospect, Cowgill) until I saw him giving it everything he had out there tonight. The dawgs had to earn their title…
…so, win out the Pac-10 tourney and we’re golden, right? No big deal.
Fantasic job, Cougs
That was one of the harder fought games I’ve seen all year. I’d love to see you guys get into the tourney. You really made us earn the Pac-10 title. I look forward to facing you guys again next year!
Don’t kid yourselves, rushing the court had everything to do with winning the Pac-10 title outright, and almost nothing to do with who we beat to do it. That was just icing on the cake.
Credit to the Cougs – you guys have had a good season considering all the important guys you graduated last year. Your team will be a major pain to play against in the Pac-10 tournament, and I wouldn’t put it past the Cougs to win the tournament.
dont flatter yourselves
rushing the floor had nothing to do with us beating the cougs. But i do remember you guys rushing the floor after beating asu.. the number 3 team in the pac?
Really? Really?
After we write a post that gives you credit, you’re really going to bring that in here?
Give me a break. Go over to your own site and celebrate with each other.
I hear ya Nuss...
I want to make a statement. When someone from their side comes over here all nicey-nicey but has posted a bunch of crap about our guys on their site, I get upset. That’s why, for everyone on here that gives a crap, I said derogatory comments about some of their players today. It’s something I try not to lower myself into doing but I did it. Not sure if I’m proud of myself or not. One of their posters, who shall remain nameless right now, really said some crap about some of our players and it bothered me tremendously. Then he comes over here and starts trashing one of ours and then gets all nicey-nicey. He can KMA!
Go Cougs!!!
Wow... What a D-Bag
Typical Husky behavior. That is a good example of why I hate the Purple Puppies so much.
I am so angry about it right now....
I grew up a huskey fan. Even after I graduated I had a good feeling for their program. I’m not a hater and never have been. I love being a Coug and never will that change. I was accepted at both schools but decided to get away from home. I wanted to be my own person and you can’t do that if you are always within 60 minutes of mom and dad.
It’s only been over the last couple of years that I have started to develop a hatred for the pups and it’s because of all the in-your-face comments I get just being out in public wearing a Coug hat or T. Not all of it is good-natured nor meant to be. It went over-the-top for me at Hec Ed last year when I sat next to a 12 year old who’s father had taught him to hate us. This man had to apologize for his son’s behavior over and over again.
Now, I hope they lose every game they play but I still love my friends that either went there or support them. It’s just all the arrogance I can’t stomach, the stuff that goes outside the boundaries of good-natured sportsmanship.
I was all pumped up for today’s game and for the first time ever I went over to the huskee side of the SBNation to check it out, couldn’t get enough of the stuff. One of their posters posted an article I found totally offensive and then, during the game, was over here dumping on Kop. Now I know Kop has struggled mightily all season long, but when one of theirs comes over here with that garbage I called him on it. And then after the game, he’s all nicey-nicey. Sorry everyone for venting but I will NEVER post on their site. Never gonna happen. That putz can KMA and so can all of their arrogant fans for that matter, because he represents that element of their program. I guess if you run out of nice things to say about your kids and your program, it’s alright to make condescending comments about another program’s players.
Go over to their side and read this article and you be the judge:
http://www.uwdawgpound.com/2009/3/5/781325/huskies-vs-cougars
I'm also pissed that this person called out Tony
…as a bad recruiter? I would say Klay, Casto and Capers have shown a lot proving otherwise. WE don’t know yet how the other guys will look next year. You’re right though…total putz.
Funny how the whole post is full of jabs at us then he comes over to wish us the best. Jerk.
I just went over that article
And didn’t see anything offensive in it. In fact, here are the only things that I thought could have been even remotely offensive (but they’re all true):
Isaiah Thomas is a shoo-in to win FOY over Klay Thompson. (True. Look at the polls johnnycougar posted around the Pac-10 for the opinion of fans, and read an article or two for the opinion of the media)
The Cougars are not a good offensive team. (True. They were 106th in the nation heading into the game – not good)
Rochestie is a better shooter than a scorer. (True. He shoots better from 3 than he does from 2)
Tony Bennet did an awful job of recruiting between his hiring and their most recent class. (True. The players he landed are Lodwick, Enquist, Koprivica and Boeke – four players who aren’t good enough to contribute in Pac-10 play)
No Cougar gets a lot of steals. (True. Klay Thompson leads the team with 1 a game, and his steal rate is still pretty low)
Casto is inconsistent. (True. And in that same sentence I called him as good a shot blocker in the conference – before Dancin Football ran his article stating the same)
Tony Bennett and Lorenzo Romar are about even as coaches. (Purely opinion, and being as good a coach as Romar is no insult)
The Huskies were the favorites to win the game. (True. Vegas and Kenpom agreed with me)
And then during the game I said this:
Nikola Koprivika isn’t a Pac-10 caliber player. (True. If he were offered to every other Pac-10 team they would all decline. He’s not good)
I’m sorry, it seems you’re either just easily offended or offended by the truth. I mean if you can show me where I wrote anything in that article that was offensive I’d love to see it. If you want to get all worked up because I used hyperbole in regards to Koprivika (and I even said right after it that I was, in fact, using hyperbole), well I guess there’s nothing I can do about that.
http://www.spartyandfriends.com/
I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you....
I found many of the things you said in your article totally offensive, and I will just leave it at that. You can spin it any way you wish.
I’m over it and am moving on. Good luck in LA and Portland! I hope we get another shot at your beloved program.
Go Cougs!!!
Not true
Tony Bennet did an awful job of recruiting between his hiring and their most recent class. (True. The players he landed are Lodwick, Enquist, Koprivica and Boeke – four players who aren’t good enough to contribute in Pac-10 play)
Most of this is just flat false.
First of all, Koprivica was recruited during Dick Bennett’s last year. Furthermore, I think it’s quite a stretch to say that Koprivica isn’t good enough to contribute in Pac-10 play. He’s a solid on-ball defender and is one of the better defensive rebounding guards in the conference. I know it’s awful hard for most Husky fans to appreciate what players do when they don’t have the ball in their hands, but he played some outstanding defense on Pondexter in the second half and has had his moments this year, despite struggling overall to contribute on offense. If this wasn’t a team that had so few perimeter scoring options, his deficiencies would be masked a lot more than they are now.
Enquist was recruited as a walk-on, so I’m not sure what you expect there.
Lodwick is a redshirt freshman, so I think it’s a little early to reach that conclusion. People said the same things about Kyle Weaver (can’t shoot), Derrick Low (too slow) and Robbie Cowgill (too skinny) after their first years. The difference is, there was nobody better in front of them as there is now.
And to say Boeke also isn’t “good enough” to contribute in Pac-10 play is just stupid — the guy has had a chronic back problem. It’s not about talent with that guy, it’s about ability to stay healthy. The truth is that nobody know what that guy might do in the Pac-10.
It also didn’t help Tony that Josh Akognon transferred during that offseason, when there really was no chance to replace him. (His scholarship went to Boeke.)
If you don’t want to be called out, do a little research beforehand.
I agree
Calling out Tony on his first recruiting classes is just stupid. There weren’t many scholies available, and there were fewer minutes. Not to mention that Tony did most of the recruiting of Low, Weaver, Cowgill, Harmelling, etc. It was understood that they would likely finish their careers playing for Tony, and he was instrumental in bringing them in.
Tony’s first classes that he should be judged on is this years and next years. Klay, Capers, and Casto mixed with Thames, Motum and Chadwick. These are the classes that Tony will be judged by.
Overall, I have a lot to say about the way Husky fans like to write about Cougars on any Husky centered blog (Seattle Times or others). But it’s not really worth it. Their team deserves all the respect in the world and their coach deserves a tremendous amount of credit for pulling this year together and leading with class. Now if only their fans followed the classy example of the coach, the example they love to talk about but rarely emulate.
I'm sorry
So getting a walk on, a kid who redshirted and didn’t really play at all coming off of it, and a kid who can’t stay healthy constitutes good recruiting?
I don’t see where you’ve disproven the fact that the Cougars will be bereft of talent and depth from their upperclassmen the next two years. And the blame for that is Tony Bennett’s.
http://www.spartyandfriends.com/
If you wouldn't write all that crap....
from the first sentence on, you wouldn’t have to come over here and defend yourself so vigorously. Your whole demeanor is what turns me off. Go back where you belong!
Go Cougs!!!
You call it crap
And yet you can’t point out any of it that isn’t either a fact or a matter of opinion.
http://www.spartyandfriends.com/
Oh, and one other thing
Did you leave a comment on your post about how we were right about length bothering Isaiah Thomas in this game? :-)
Is that what you want....
For me to point out every comment you made that I found offensive? Then we get to debate every said point? If I post my objections in that way, will you read it and then go away?
I didn't say it constituted good recruiting
Did I? I just said your conclusions were unreasonable.
And the blame is not Tony Bennett’s. Again, you need to do some research. We had three guys leave our program over the past two years — Mac Hopson, who was all-WAC first team this year, Stephen Sauls (injured, no longer playing) and Thomas Abercrombie (went home to New Zealand) — who all were expected to be contributors. That’s how we ended up with so many scholarships to hand out to last year’s recruiting class.
Sometimes, that just happens. Ask Lorenzo Romar — he knows all about it, doesn’t he?
To Add onto this
Recruiting is a complex thing. Not something nearly as simple as fans at home want to believe it is. To criticize a coach for failing to get quality guys on his team that were willing to sit out and wait…when the team wasn’t great at the time of their recruitment…isn’t necessarily the coaches fault.
The program is in a better place today then it was two or three years ago, even if two years ago we were about to appear in the NCAA’s. And with Tony at the helm we can continue to improve.
Bottom line, a coach that is trying to recruit players to a program that is emerging, and has little PT to offer them, has two strikes against him. Once he had open time to offer, and plenty of scholarships, he brought in guys that no one can dispute are quality Pac 10 players.
The coach factors into players leaving.
Injuries can’t really be controlled, but you can’t just say that the other players who left would have done so regardless of who the coach was. Recruiting isn’t just getting players to come to your school, it’s keeping them there once you’ve got them.
http://www.spartyandfriends.com/
So Romar is also a horrible recruiter
If players leaving is the basis for it.
Recent transfers, many of whom were supposed to be contributors:
Adrian Oliver
Phill Nelson
Harvey Perry
These are all players that should be upper classmen, but Romars poor recruiting skills caused them to leave.
Also leaving the same season was Spencer Hawes, again, Romar must be a horrible recruiter.
I know this is completely untrue, Romar is a fantastic recruiter year in and year out. But players leave, with only 5 guys on a court at a time players get frustrated and look for PT elsewhere. A coaches job is to keep players in his program, but when that doesn’t work out he must replace them. Both Romar and Tony do a great job recruiting talent that fits there school and their program.
He also couldn't get Martell Webster to pass on the NBA
And Josh Barnard transferred to EWU and helped them to the NCAA Tournament. So, Romar must stink, right?
You’ll probably point to his first recruiting class as evidence of his superior recruiting powers, but may I point out two things:
1) Brandon Roy was recruited and locked up by Bob Bender, and only came to UW after he failed to get drafted.
2) Nate Robinson came to UW on a football scholarship.
That was a pretty sweet situation to walk into.
There’s no comparison between Romar and Bennett as far as recruiting, because even when Romar has missed, he has still hit. The highly touted 2006 class that “fell apart” still gave the program a year of Spencer Hawes and four years of Quincy Pondexter. You wanna bring up Martell Webster? His class had kids named Brockman and Dentmon in it.
Regardless, I’ve made my point. There was nothing wrong with that article (especially considering it was written for the Husky fan base), and that we’ve come so far off the beaten path for you guys to have a straw(man) to grasp is proof of that. You think Tony Bennett did a good job of recruiting in his early days? Fine. Think that. But the evidence shows otherwise.
http://www.spartyandfriends.com/
Why do you keep saying I said he did a good job?
You keep repeating something I didn’t actually say, and you’re missing the overall point. I said I think your conclusions are flawed, and that’s how I approached it in my comment. Ignore it or whatever, that’s what I said.
The point is this: If you want to judge Bennett fairly, judge him on this freshman class and the next one. He didn’t quite inherit the job that Romar did. Romar has done a great job capitalizing on his team success in his recruiting class; afford Bennett the same opportunity before making sweeping generalizations.
...And if recruiting failure means no "empty cupboard" years
Then the UW’s 2006 class would be exactly an example of the same failure you are claiming Bennett is having this year, graduating a class that carried a team and needing to rebuild. And struggling in that process, I might add.
With a few exceptions, (Duke, NC, UCLA, Arizona until recent years) coaches don’t have the luxury of stocking their cupboards with great talent that will sit on the bench for one-three years and patiently wait their turn. Both UW and WSU have fallen into this category, senior laden teams are replaced by Freshmen laden teams that have to grow. So as Nuss says, if you want to judge Bennett’s recruiting, judge it by this year and next year, let him bring in these guys and mold them. If we’re a bottom feeder in the Pac-10 3 years from now with Klay, DC, and Capers as seniors, then you have a case.
Our students rushed the court because of how the game ended
not because of the team we beat
This is where per game statistics go to die.
CougCenter
Sounds like Tony
We found out today that, in a lot of ways, we are who we thought we were.
Isn’t that what Tony said needed to happen at the beginning of this season?
The better team won, without a doubt
We did not choke this game away — we gave it everything we had. Could we quibble with Tony’s use (or non-use as it were) of the two freshmen? Sure. But we gave Washington everything they could handle, holding them to just 103.5 efficiency and consistently coming at them time and time again. Every time we had a chance to fold and get run over, we didn’t.
But the same credit goes to Washington for that. The Huskies of the past two years would have melted in the face of a team as relentless as the Cougs were tonight, but they didn’t. They clearly have a resolve and discipline that was missing. That’s a dang good team.
I am so proud to be a Coug!
Our guys gave it everything they had. I can not ask for a better effort. The better team prevailed today but I would love another shot at them. The future of Cougar basketball could not be brighter. I can easily second-guess Tony too, but that’s exactly what all fans do. I wouldn’t trade him for any other coach in the country.
Kop, you need to figure it out because if you don’t, I doubt you get off the bench at all next season. Just saying….
I'd like another shot at them in the tournament too...
Just think it Thompson had not got into foul trouble?
Or even Capers?
I’d love to play the purple pups again. I don’t think Poindexter would have the same type of game again. He’s an up and down player.
Tough loss for us. I loved how hard we fought to the very end. Our guys made them work for this win.
Nik’s play really frustrated me (once again). He missed a few layups/near layups…and no way he should have taken that late outside shot. He should know better. I thought, however, he played tough D on Poindexter. The one that Kew Pon hit at the end of the game was with Nik draped all over him. Tough shot…and NK played about as tough as he could on that shot.
Highly unlikely that we win the Pac-10 Tournament…but it would be great to see us win at least two games in LA this week.
by westsidecougar1 on Mar 8, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
Sweeping WSU is a big deal
It isn’t like we have been dominant against the Coug’s lately.
I think WSU will be back in the tournament next year. WSU has a solid program, great coach, and lots of good young players.
As far as rushing the court it had to do with winning the first outright title since 1953. Beating WSU is nice but this was a big deal that doesn’t happen very often.
I think you guys had every right to rush the court
Anyone not name UCLA winning the Pac 10 is a big deal
This is where per game statistics go to die.
CougCenter
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