Get Rich Quick? Earn $2 mil for each Apple Cup sold!
Editor's Note: Nuss here. Since we've spent a lot of time talking about the positives of the probable move of the Apple Cup to Qwest Field in Seattle, I wanted to give some space to those who are absolutely against this. So I hit up my buddy Mike, who composed some of the more eloquent comments against the proposal in the other posts. He's a true-blooded crimson of a Coug as a I know, was a sports management major, has worked in the professional sports industry, and eventually wants to get into college athletics administration. He's got a unique perspective. Enjoy.
When I first caught wind of the Apple Cup's potential long-term move to Qwest Field I went through an array of emotions and I'll be honest, none of them were positive. I guess with being a former employee of the Evil Emperor himself, Clay Bennett, I have seen too much selling out the last couple years and none of it was butts in seats! Anytime I hear discussion of bright shiny new ideas or enticing sports revenue schemes, my gut reminds me of the old phrase, "If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is."
I had a front row seat for Clay Bennett and his executive staff putting together their "compelling" argument on how financially viable a world-class Renton Event Center would be in Seattle. Within months, I saw him twist and turn those very same figures to prove to the NBA why the franchise would be better off in Oklahoma City, of all places. Numbers can be slanted and skewed to make anything sound viable, and that is why the $2 million guaranteed revenue doesn't hold a lot of weight with me.
Now I know Sterk is not trying to sabotage the situation like Clay Bennett did, but I do think the pressure of tuition hikes and state budget cuts have to be wearing on the guy. I'm just concerned he might be getting all of us into one of those "get rich quick" pit-falls. We have all been pitched a pyramid or multi-level marketing scheme by our friends or family, and right now UW and WSU are sitting at the Starbucks ready to sign-on underneath the triangle that is First & Goal. I will not be surprised if it comes out to be less than the $2 million per year, and more importantly, I see us losing money in other areas which will only counter such a big payout.
Sorry for being such a Debbie Downer, but I'll give some potentially negative effects of a Qwest Apple Cup.
First off, either this pending deal is a sign that Phase III and IV of the Martin Stadium Project are indefinitely on hold, or they will be put on hold because of this deal. I just don't see there being enough interest in adding the luxury items to Martin Stadium when one of the main attractions is removed from Pullman. I know Apple Cup in Pullman only happens every other year, but if you believe many of the long-term season ticket holders who have spoken out so far on the situation, they have kept their season tickets for two reasons: moving down into better seats, and assurance of Apple Cup tickets. Dwindling season ticket revenue aside, do we really need an addition 5,000 seats for the likes of Idaho, Portland State, and Oregon State?
With the Seattle game being moved back to Pullman in return of the Apple Cup, I'm starting to think the Gridiron Classic was a big bust. All we have heard in the few comments made towards the Apple Cup deal, is that the contract for the Gridiron Classic was nearing its end and they had to re-evaluate everything. If the Seattle game was financially successful, then my thought is First & Goal is just trying to make a power-play for something bigger and better. Either way, moving the Gridiron Classic back to Pullman will be a drop in revenue and needs to be considered when taking the $2 million guarantee into consideration.
As I've mentioned in a few of my previous comments on CougCenter posts, for me personally the location is ideal (I live 5 minutes away from Qwest). What I'm concerned with is the minority voices that might not be getting their fair shake. By minority voice, I'm talking about the student body and east side alumni.
Especially in comparison to UW's stadium financing project, our students stepped up big-time for the Martin Stadium remodel. I could be a little off, but I think the first two phases were completed primarily through $27 million -- which was committed by the students through self-imposed fees and ticket surcharges. Would they have been so eager to help if they knew they would have to travel to Seattle for the Apple Cup, sit in the end zone instead of the 50 yard line, and potentially never see Phase III or IV of their home stadium? This, of course, is in addition to potentially having their tuition hiked 14 percent on them the next couple years. If I were a current student, I would demand ASWSU to have a voice in these negotiations.
We once said the Seattle game would be a huge recruiting tool, being able to see 50,000 Cougars cheer on their football team, blah, blah, blah. Now that the Gridiron Classic will be disappearing, will the Apple Cup in Seattle make up for it in appeal? Will recruits -- who are probably getting recruited by UW just as much as they are WSU -- look into the stand and say, "Wow those 33,000 Cougar fans seem much more affectionate towards their team than the 33,000 Husky fans do!" or "Man, that WSU Marching Band is ten times better than UW's." I'm sorry, but promoting the Apple Cup in Seattle as a recruiting advantage is hog-wash. If anything, it will re-iterate to potential recruits how far WSU still has to go.
I wish I were a compliance director, because another thing I have been wondering about -- in order to be considered an official visit, doesn't a recruiting trip have to be within 30 miles of your home campus? If that is the case, how will we be getting a recruiting advantage when UW is bringing in recruits on official trips, when WSU cannot? Even if permitted, would Wulff want to bring recruits to the Apple Cup now? Are they going to commit on the spot without seeing the campus, checking out the athletic facilities, and their particular educational program?
Husky side note: I don't know how many season ticket holders UW has, but how can they be excited about only being allotted 33,000 seats per year when their home stadium gives them about 65,000 to work with? I know they are not all season ticket holders, but it has to be putting the crunch on their seating arrangements. Before we blindly start accepting the idea and this 50/50 Utopian split, be careful not to get your hopes up too high. Apple Cup could very easily turn into a 60/40 or 70/30 if UW gets their way in the negotiations. Part of the reason why I hate going to Husky Stadium for Apple Cups is there is just way too much arrogance in one place! To never have a safe-haven of Cougar Pride (every other year -- so be it!), it could kill the Apple Cup for me. I would rather watch it on TV with close friends than be spewed the same crap from drunk, egotistical Huskies talking about their "history and tradition."
Finally, from a side note to a personal note. When I first stepped foot on campus in Pullman -- August of 1998 -- I was sadly *gulp* a default Husky fan. I grew up on the west-side, listened to Husky games on the radio, watched the Rose Bowls on TV. My first year on campus, although I rooted for WSU, I could care less if they won or loss. The 1998 Apple Cup was sadly my moment to see the Husky team up close for the first time -- nothing more, nothing less.
In 1999, I changed my major to sport management and started learning about the short-comings that WSU faces, especially in comparison to other Pac-10 athletic departments. It was impressive how they actually perform very well for the circumstances. I really started to grasp and embrace the under-dog mentality with which all true Cougs have been accustomed!
The 2000 Apple Cup rolled around and I was on the field working with the television crew. The temperature was about 8 degrees at kickoff and with the wind-chill it had to be dipping below zero. I had sold my stocking cap to a Cougar alum for $20 bucks, so I was already freezing (terrible decision by the way!). Before the kickoff, some of our crew kept warm by sitting on the Huskies' new heated seats, complete with special slots to warm your hands and feet. These had recently been donated to them by Paul Allen's Seahawks. While we were playing on our newly installed Field Turf which our alum had so proudly raised the funds; the Huskies were also getting new Field Turf installed at their stadium- again, a donation by the Hawks. As the home team, WSU players sat on their cold metal benches with two or three electric space heaters in between (one of which I accidentally unplugged, much to the ire of the team).
By halftime we were already getting blown out. One of the sideline reporters (might have been Lewis Johnson), had placed a vase of roses on the Cougar side of the field. I guess he was going to do a piece on the Huskies upcoming trip to the Rose Bowl and wanted to do it right in front of the WSU student section. (How smart!) Well, the student body started calling for me to throw them the roses, and I was obviously torn on what to do. Should I sabotage the bit and never work a game again; or piss off my fellow students?
Well, luckily a couple of WSU offensive linemen had come out of the tunnel and quickly spotted the vase, before I could even form my decision. The next thing I know the reporter is asking me why I fed his roses to the crowd?! I say fed, because when I turned around to see where they ended up, they were literally being chewed on and ripped apart by WSU students! A couple of hours later, the UW faithful rushed our field, hung from our goal posts and it was at that moment I embraced "being a Coug."
This is also the reason why the Apple Cup in Pullman, holds so much meaning for me personally. I'm passionate about sticking up for the students, because I know there are a lot of new Cougs that haven't yet grasped what "Once a Coug, Always a Coug" means. Maybe for them it becomes a freezing, miserable, lopsided Apple Cup in Pullman when it finally clicks! Two million dollars is a lot of money, but there are some factors that we might be unable to calculate into dollars and cents.
This FanPost does not necessarily reflect the views of the site's writers or editors, who may not have verified its accuracy. It does, however, reflect the views of this particular fan, which is just as important as the views of our writers or editors.
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Interesting points, a couple responces
As for the Martin Stadium remodel, Sterk said the extra money could help complete the remodel. This is a sign that it remains a high priority for the University. I agree though, getting additional individuals to commit to seats without the apple cup in Pullman will be hard.
About the seating distribution, I think it is fairly clear that their will be an equal distribution between the schools. The only way I could see a non equal distribution is as follows. Perhaps they will allot 28,000 to each school and leave the extra 8,000 seats open to either school. While this does not make a ton of sense, it would probably ensure the stadium is full. I would not suggest this at all, but this is far more likely than WSU agreeing to a 60/40 distribution.
This is a great piece....
As a former student that never got to see one single home game at Martin stadium I am torn to bits over this issue. I appreciate everyone’s point of view, but even though I’d like to see the athletic department get this infusion of cash, it almost feels like we are selling our souls to do it. What to do? Just saying….
Doing more with less
I think we all like the feeling of overcoming so many challenges and still finding a way to compete in what could be the best conference in the nation. WSUs athletic budget is deep in the cellar of the conference. We are a distant last place to Oregon State. The northwest schools probably have more challenges than any other program in the conference. However, the UW has the Tyee Club, Oregon has Phil Knight and Nike, and Oregon State has Reser. Unfortunately WSU doesn’t have that big donor to even the playing field. Alum Paul Allen even helps out the mutt’s as you noted in your post.
So I guess I’m trying to say that I understand the attraction to sell-out. The biggest issue I have is that it might not have needed to come to this. We wasted a great opportunity to raise money when we went to the ‘98 Rose Bowl. We treated that bowl game like we were headed to the Sun Bowl instead of treating it like it was the biggest even in modern day history. Then in 2002, the ticket fiasco was yet another opportunity lost. How those bowl games were wasted is beyond me not to mention that we weren’t able to take advantage of those years of success and turn the football program into a consistent winner.
WSU can’t afford to waste opportunities when they come around. Now in tough economic times we end up needing to give away home field advantage. We don’t seem to have visionaries or proactive leadership. Instead we have an administration that is reactive and too slow to take advantage of opportunities when they are present.
That is not good enough for me.
Obviously I opposed to this deal, maybe every 3rd yr we play at this
so called neutral site, but I am concerned that if Sterk is seriously considering this we are in a much deeper whole then maybe none of can imagine. Maybe TB was behind the crimson curtain. Maybe Sterk was asking him to move the basketball AC to Key Arena or more away “money” games against tough opponents.
My biggest issue is how Sterk comes to these decisions at times. This apparently is a done deal. If you want to piss off a fan base what Sterk has done is exactly how to do it.
I don’t think this money has anything to do about the stadium, and I think it has everything to do with keeping sports afloat at WSU in face of severe budget cuts and record increases in tuition.
Just think about it, when this deal is finalized there will be WSU alumni who will have never seen an AC in Pullman! Are you kidding me?!!
That same game meant a lot to me as well
It was my first live Apple Cup, as a student, me and my family spent the game alternately bemoaning the Cougs getting crushed by the Tui-led Huskies and scraping ice off of the metal benches we were trying to sit on. That is one of the top five coldest days I’ve ever experienced personally…and after the game, we had the 4+ hour drive in the dark back to Seattle ahead of us.
On it’s surface, it looks like it should’ve been a horrible time, but for whatever reason, I too became a proud Cougar that day.
As the days have gone on since this news first broke, I understand why Sterk can’t possibly pass this up…it’s simply too much money for the school and the program. Doesn’t mean we can’t be dissapointed for the students that wont get the experiences that we got, and for the town for which that day, every other year, is arguably THE most important day of the year.
Great piece
I agree with everything in it, other than the growing up a Husky part. I grew up in Central Washington and have always been a Coug, mainly because I like the underdog mentality. I didn’t have any real family connections other than one uncle who is a Coug, but I also have and Aunt that is a Husky.
I have mentioned in many of the threads about this topic, I am an east side alum and season ticket holder. Your thoughts on why many people have season tickets, partly to secure Apple Cup tickets and to keep good seats for the top games, is right on. I know many who fit that bill. I usually make every game and have found that the game itself is only a small part of the weekend experience, especially these last couple of years. It is about going back to Pullman, seeing what has changed, seeing people you went to school with, sharing memories of the time you lived in Pullman, and trying to relive those glory days.
Taking away the biggest game/weekend there is going to kill the fan enthusiasm, especially for the most die hard fans, the season ticket holders. Doing this without even asking for imput from your regular customers is just bad business. I think this move will ultimately make season ticket sales decline considerably, making the athletic department rely on the money from 1st and goal even more. This will make sure that the Apple Cup never moves back to Pullman and most likely will kill the stadium renovation because they won’t be able to sell the seats.
I hear ya Selah, and I agree that this was pretty shortsighted,
but I think it is a good idea if it means keep us afloat financially. I have given fans who support the move a hard time because they have either cited convenience or the fact that each team will have 30k fans to negate home field advantage. I think in the long run WSU will lose financially (loss of season ticket holders, etc), but it appears to be a necessary move for the short term. Again, I highly doubt that much of these funds will be utilized for the stadium renovation, hopefully I’m proven wrong.
Coug Conversion
A mea culpa here as I can relate all too well with the author’s Cougar ‘epiphany’ and conversion. I too grew up in Seattle, raised in a die-hard Husky family and thus, was born under the undue influence of the purple and gold. I went every Saturday to Husky Stadium and thought it was the greatest thing ever. When I went to school, I faced a dilemma because I wanted to get into Communcations. Obviously, because of this, Wazzu was the place I should be, so I bit down, gritted my teeth and signed up for four years in Pullman. My first Coug football game at Martin I just couldn’t fathom that I would ever switch allegiences… we were playing Idaho, the stadium was half empty, and the play on the field was not all that stellar. And where was my view of the mountains and the lake?? I thought, no way am I ever going to be able to make this conversion.
Well, as the season wore on, as Bledsoe and Bobo and that tenacious defense (Sasa!!) began to gather wins, as the appeal of Martin Stadium and the close-knit, ‘us-against-the-world’ mentality began to work its way into my system, I slowly came around. And then, Apple Cup 1992 was upon us. The big bad Huskies were favored, big time. The talk amongst us students was pretty much centered around how to sneak our contraband into the game and whether the team could even keep things intersting in the game. No one thought we had a shot, not even the most die-hard amongst us. Then the snow began to fall.
Friday night, we all marveled as the white stuff began to pile up. We pre-funked all night, risking pneumonia and hangovers as we gloriously jumped into the snow banks, thinking maybe, just maybe, we might have a shot thanks to Mama Nature, who clearly showed herself as a Coug fan that wonderful weekend. Everyone across Cougar Nation knows what happened in that game — Bledsoe and the Cougs simply made a mockery of that vaunted Husky team. And no, it wasn’t because of our ‘special shoes’.
As we watched the joyous dismantling happen, the sub-freezing temparatures meant nothing. It got warmer and warmer as the game went on (the contraband may have had something to do with that too), and when we poured onto the field to celebrate the upset and Husky humiliation we had been a part of, I was finally a Cougar, through in through.
I now live in New York and have found the brotherhood of Cougar nation even in the far reaches of big bad Gotham. There aren’t many of us, but when we get together to watch a game, you’d think we were thousands strong. Once a Coug always a Coug indeed.
What does this have to do with the proposed Cup move to Qweset? Because while the benefits, particularly from a financial standpoint, for the move seem to be sensible and strong, and just may be necessary to keep Cougar athletics afloat, it doesn’t change the very discouraging notion that today’s Cougars may never experience the magic of what can happen on a ‘freeze your ass off’ November day in Pullman. And that’s a damn shame and a very hard pill to swallow.
I’m extremely thankful for those Saturdays in Pullman, now more than ever. But whether the Cougs play the Pups in Pullman, Seattle, Spokane or Mars, I have faith that the team will rise up, even when the deck is stacked against them, and smack that smug smile right off those Husky faces. So bring the Pups on, anywhere, any place.
GO COUGS!
Bledsoe copied my history notes.
by GothamMariner on Apr 20, 2009 11:18 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Great story!
Rec’d!
This is where per game statistics go to die.
CougCenter
by Craig Powers on Apr 20, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Great story....
One out of the group of guys I hung with moved to NYC right after we all graduated. I know he’s a Coug through and through too. I don’t remember exactly when the light came on for me but I do share one very common thought with you.
It doesn’t matter where we play the mutts, it just matters that we get to play them. I just wish all Cougs could unite behind our AD, no matter what the decision is and pull through this together and in six years make sure we bring the AC back to Pullman. (Assuming we have to play it at Qwest)
Go Cougs!!!

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