If this makes you happy, don't get too excited yet
by Jeff Nusser on Apr 24, 2009 2:10 PM PDT
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PrintAs you've read about below, the move of the Apple Cup to Qwest Field in Seattle is apparently dead. And more details are emerging, via the best beat reporter around:
According to sources in the WSU athletic department, the original agreement gave WSU and the University of Washington each 31,000 seats in Qwest Field every year. But in the past week, UW expressed its desire for about another 7,000 additional seats, the sources said, in an attempt to mollify season ticket holders.
The University of Washington has sold some 38,000 season tickets for this fall already and expects to come close to last year’s 43,500, according to athletics department spokesman Richard Kilwien. The school has sold as many as 56,200 season tickets in a single season since 1995.
I actually had wondered about that to some friends. I was curious why UW season ticket holders weren't making more of a fuss about that aspect, given that there would likely be a significant number of them that would never get the opportunity to watch an Apple Cup in its six years at Qwest. Apparently, there was more griping behind the scenes than we knew.
If you're excited about the fact that this is dead, you might want to temper your enthusiasm. I'd be pretty shocked if this thing was all the way dead.
First, look at what Sterk actually said. Not once did he say there was no chance this was ever going to happen; he said they wouldn't pursue it anymore. Translation: We're done being jerked around -- if you want us back in this game, you're going to have come up with something that makes it worth our time.
Second, the financial problems that both universities are facing are still very, very real. They're not going away because people feel better about playing the game at their stadium every other year. And for that reason, I believe this is a power play from Sterk.
You know what this reminds me of? The Dodgers and Manny Ramirez this past baseball offseason. Both sides needed each other, both sides knew it was in their best interest to be together because both sides had so much to gain from the relationship -- and so much to lose from the lack of one -- but one side wasn't going to be bullied into overpaying. Eventually, they did the smart thing that was in everyone's best interest.
There is just too dang much money on the table for everyone to walk away over 7,000 tickets. I'd be really surprised if this thing isn't resurrected at some point in the future. There's still a ton of time to get a deal in place before 2010.
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Spot on...
I think you’re absolutely right on this one, Nuss. This thing isn’t over yet…
You could be right
But at least Sterk isn’t giving in. If he agreed to their request, I really think he would be done. I could see it becoming lopsided every other year so that the years it is supposed to be at one campus, that team gets more tickets.
If I were Sterk, I would be moving into negotiations with Oregon State. They have already come out and said they are hurting as well. The OSU games in Pullman don’t draw, not sure about WSU games in Corvallis. They could keep Apple cup the weekend before Thanksgiving and then move this game to the weekend after Thanksgiving. I know many, including myself, like the Apple Cup to be the final game of the year, but with the 12 game schedule, that doesn’t work unless you have no bye. I would like it more if they just moved the Apple Cup to the first weekend in December, but they don’t seem to want to do that. I’m not sure what OSU season ticket totals are, but I would guess they wouldn’t be more than 31,000 and if they are, not by much. Corvallis is closer to Seattle than Pullman is. WSU has more alumni in the area, but I actually work with a few Beavs and I’m sure there are plenty in Vancouver/Portland that would make the drive up I-5.
Oh, man -- he would have been crucified if he'd agreed to that
As for OSU … it comes down to whether OSU alums would travel to the tune of 30,000 fans. I’m not sure.
My guess would be
No.
This is where per game statistics go to die.
CougCenter
by Craig Powers on Apr 24, 2009 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Especially because
They don’t want to give up their homefield advantage at Reiser. Those that have been there can understand why the Beavs wouldn’t want to leave! It’s really a great venue, which is why we’re trying to replicate what they’ve done with Phase III of our renovation.
I don't think so
I’m an “editor” and Grady and Nuss are “managers”
This is where per game statistics go to die.
CougCenter
by Craig Powers on Apr 24, 2009 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I am bummed
I know that over 85% of Cougar Nation did not want to play in Qwest field, but I actually warmed up to the deal. Also, I don’t think people understand how much WSU is behind the 8 ball financially compared to the rest of the Pac 10. I lived 23 years in WA and parents still live there. I currently live in California and the recession has really hit people down here. After talking to my friends in WA they said that they haven’t really felt the recession yet up in WA yet. Well everyone up there get ready for it, because it is coming and it is going to hit WSU hard. Especially if we alumni don’t quick crying and start donating. You must read the article below from scout.com. Face the facts WSU is not going to be immune to this financially hard times. If we have to play the Apple Cup in Seattle for 6 years, so be it. I want funding for Phase III of the Martin Stadium, so we can raise more revenue for athletics, since no one else is stepping up and donating. Sterk will be revisiting this…it is just strategy right now. Sterk has to get creative to raise money…bottom line. Get ready for the Apple Cup do be in Qwest. It will happen because both schools need the money.
I really wanted the deal
But never if we get less than 50/50.
UW has ~40K season tix holders
They lose ~7k tix for a home game and gain ~25k for an away game. (not sure how many tix they get in Pullman)
looks like a net gain to me.
Except that it's the same season ticket holders going year after year
So that kind of makes it different.
Red River War
I lived in Austin for about 4 years and I never heard a season ticket holder upset about the Red River War. Texas Memorial holds 94k, OK Memorial holds something over 80k. I’m sure there are more than 50,000 season ticket holders for both schools and the Cotton Bowl holds something like 70k or less.
After thinking about WSUs athletic budget I changed my mind on the deal. It would have been a good deal for WSU and I actually hope it does come back and people figure out that we simply cannot afford to pass on that kind of money at this point in time.
The difference, though, is that they've been playing that game in Dallas for a very long time
For four generations now, that’s the way it’s been. This is a shock to the system because it’s different than what they’ve become accustomed to.
I just don't see one right answer in all this....
If we don’t find a compromise of some sort everyone is going to suffer. There has got to be a way to work this all out instead of just walking away from the table.
Let me put it this way, we have way more in common with UW than we have differences with them. I’m NOT saying we need to play the AC at Qwest, but what I am saying is that there are a bunch of issues we are in a pissing match over. It’s getting a little bit rediculous.
For crying out loud, playing six Apple Cups at Qwest is NOT the end of the world and if UW needs an extra 7,000 friggin seats every other year for their elitest, then so be it. That should not be a deal breaker.
Having a showcase football game for six years at Qwest for the whole state to celebrate is way more important that one school’s interests. I know I can’t speak for everyone and I know not everyone agrees with my opinion but passing up a major source of funds that would allow us to finish phase III of Martin Stadium is hard to pass up. Especially with that stupid mandate we have in place. Rant over!
While I also was sad to see it die
Giving UW another 7000 seats isn’t a good option. The “split” numbers that keep getting thrown around are 31000 each. That’s 62000 seats. Qwest capacity for football is 67000, I’m guessing that the majority of the 5000 seats not split are seats that belong in the suite category and belong to whomever owns the suite. Those are Puget Sound area businesses, and are likely to favor UW fans if offering their seats simply due to the proximity to the U.
Let’s say UW wins that 4-1, so that they would have 3000 more fans in attendence. If we were to cave and give them another 7000, suddenly we’re looking at a 10k fan deficit and it’s truly a UW home game every year.
Like I said, I was rooting for the Qwest deal. I think ultimately it’s good for both schools, and would add national prestige to a rivalry at the expense of local tradition. But things have to be equal, we can’t be the second class citizens in a deal like this.
I wasn't trying to make us second class citizens....
It was an every-other-year type of proposition. I didn’t say i was for giving up 7,000 tickets every year. It was a way of trying to find a compromise.
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