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Unfortunately, we have entered a new era in the UW-WSU rivalry

I've witnessed the UW-WSU rivalry first-hand for virtually my entire life, having grown up in the Seattle area as a Husky fan, then having become a Coug upon my graduation from high school.

And while it gets intense for fans of the teams on the field, the administrations, for the most part, have generally seen it as little more than good-natured fun. While there has always been a little bit of an uneasiness between the two institutions given the natural differences in size and location, both always ultimately realized that as the state's two largest -- and only research -- universities, they would accomplish far more by working together than by fighting against each other.

Those times appear to be gone as each school clamors for what it sees as its piece of the ever-shrinking economic pie.

First, there was the news that the Apple Cup at Qwest Field negotiations were dead. More than $20 million was left on the table not over some kind of major sticking point, but over UW's insistence that it receive 7,000 additional seats to placate upset season ticket holders. While 7,000 might not seem like much, that's a little more than 10 percent of all the seats available and represented a nearly 25 percent increase over UW and WSU's already agreed-upon allotments. Not surprisingly, it was an absolute deal-breaker for a university already sending its football team into its opponent's back yard.

If that Apple Cup deal was as far down the road as we're all led to believe -- that it was all but signed on the dotted line -- the arrogance shown by the University of Washington in torpedoing this deal with a request that went against one of the basic tenets of the agreement had to leave WSU administrators absolutely steaming. (Although, you'd never know it from the press release.)

Now, on the heels of Senate Bill 6116 never seeing the light of day for a vote in the state senate before the legislative session ended on Sunday, the University of Washington is ratcheting up the rhetoric even further.

In this story by Bob Condotta at the Seattle Times, UW athletics director Scott Woodward said that he doesn't think the small group of Cougar fans who vocally opposed the bill ultimately caused its demise -- he blames the "disconnect" many felt in trying to reconcile public money going to stadiums when basic services are being slashed.

It didn't stop him, though, from firing a couple of salvos in the direction of Pullman:

"The most disappointing thing about it is that [WSU president] Elson Floyd and [WSU athletic director] Jim Sterk didn't do anything to try to contain that little group of Cougars that were out there doing that. It was a shame that they didn't show leadership or courage to curtail something like that."

That's right: The AD of the University of Washington just went to the press and called your AD and school president cowards.

He continues:

Woodward said he had hoped the administration at WSU might support the bill — or at least try to dampen the protests against it — on the theory that if UW had gotten funding for its project, it would set a precedent that would allow the Cougars to get money at a later time.

"I talked to Jim about it and he made it clear that his president wasn't going to interfere with what his alums did, even if it was to his detriment or to the health of his department," Woodward said.

"It makes all the sense in the world that whenever you help someone, it helps the other. If this were hurting the Cougars, I wouldn't have even sailed it. You can't go into the legislature [with a proposal] and hurt another program. It doesn't pay to do that and I don't believe in it philosophically because I think all of our members in the Pac-10 should be strong. I'm a believer that a rising tide lifts all boats and if it would have helped us, it would have helped them."

So, let me recap: Woodward says that the reason the bill failed had nothing to do with the Cougs -- calling those fans nothing more than "an irritant" -- then uses a conversation that presumably was intended to remain private to take the WSU administration to task for not stepping in to stop the thing he just said had nothing to do with the bill not passing.

Is anyone else sensing another kind of "disconnect" here? Perhaps misplaced anger?

Look -- as anyone who read my piece last week knows, I agree with Woodward's basic tenets as outlined above. He's right. But what in the world is he thinking saying what he said? It's completely counterproductive, the height of irony and absolutely smacks of bitterness.

I don't know Woodward personally, but in watching the way he's handled his business since becoming UW athletics director I can only come to the conclusion that he is colossally arrogant with a bit of prickishness mixed in for good measure. He's a politician through and through -- just take a quick glance at what his responsibilities were at LSU -- so it shouldn't surprise anyone that slinging mud is what comes naturally to him. What a classless move to air out his counterpart in this way, not to mention stupid -- these are the very people who can help you get a measure like this passed in the future. People who are not to blame for your failure this year.

We truly have entered a new era in this rivalry -- one in which it no longer exists just on the fields and courts. And it's not a good thing. Let's hope our schools don't take each other down while the rest of the Pac-10 dances on our graves.

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True Colors

I know we talk about UW as being the arrogant school, but these tight economic times really show UWs true colors on how they feel superior to WSU. It makes me sad that UW isn’t making strides to work with WSU right now. The Apple Cup issue is just one small example of how UW feels entitled to more of the pie. With tuition hikes and teachers losing their jobs, you would think that UW and WSU would be banding together. Sad.

by JimtheCoug on Apr 28, 2009 12:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

you guys and your inferiority complex.

it really is just paranoia. Its not like we force you to walk around in your scarlet WSU’s branded on your chests – you do that on your own accord!

"Greed is Good."
So is Rudy.

by Gekko Mojo on Apr 29, 2009 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry you guys don't recognize pride when you see it

Yes we walk around with CRIMSON WSU’s branded on our chest…we love where we went, take ownership of our school, and blame no one but ourselves when things go wrong.

by 02Coug on Apr 29, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

02 couldn't have said it better....

We have each other’s backs too. Ever around when someone says, “Go Cougs?” It’s called Pride my friend.

Go Cougs!!!

by SW WA Coug on Apr 30, 2009 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah - that's kinda my point.

you tend to interpret every UW fan’s comments with an “attack on one of us” blinder as opposed to what it normally is: either fair debate or playful banter.

Really, lighten up.

"Greed is Good."
So is Rudy.

by Gekko Mojo on Apr 30, 2009 4:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Go Cougs is a universal hello for us Cougs....

One other thing you will find out about us is that we can think for ourselves. That’s also one of the qualities of good leadership. We respect each others right to have an opinion but I will always defend other Cougs that are unncecessarily attacked just because they express an opinion you find unpopular.

I take your comments for what they are worth. There are some Huskies that have the ability to think outside the box. Are you one of them?

by SW WA Coug on Apr 30, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A little late

I find it funny that Woodward would bring up the idea (I’m not completely convinced this is a fact) that this would help WSU in a roundabout way AFTER it fails. It’s just a weak attempt to make us think that somehow WE are actually victims in the failure of SB 6116.

by Wazzu Willy on Apr 28, 2009 12:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Pure arragonce.

Him stating that the Cougar Alums who protested did not have an effect on it and were just an irritant and then to call out Sterk and Floyd because of it, makes me think they may have actually influenced the decision more than we know. I don’t know how he thinks Floyd or Sterk could stop those guys from their protest. They were not acting as employees or agents of the school, they were practicing free speech. They are concerned citizens who don’t agree with the bill, who happen to be Cougs. I love how all the Huskies and even their administration is trying to blame it on the Cougs. I say let them blame us, get the rivalry going more. Woodward fits right in at that place, typical arragant bastard. He tries to discredit the guys saying they had no influence, but yet puts the blame on them and the school for not contorolling them. Wow, what a proffessional.

by selahcoug on Apr 28, 2009 12:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Woodward crossed a line in my book

He even was quoted as saying when people are facing layoffs and the state is facing and economic crisis it was doubtful the state would be up for giving $150M for a football stadium. That is the overiding issue. The ask was beyond what anyone could justify in any way shape or form.

I’m having trouble finding it but I remember Sterk saying that they would do nothing to oppose the UW seeking funds for their Stadium project and hoped if they were to get their funds that WSU would as well. I saw him make the same comment in a recent chat.

Anyway, it is what it is. As usual the UW needs to find someone else to blame and this time it falls at WSUs feet. I’m pretty sure the sun will come up tomorrow although I hope the rain falls heavily on Woodward. ;)

by BornCoug on Apr 28, 2009 2:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He even was quoted as saying when people are facing layoffs and the state is facing and economic crisis it was doubtful the state would be up for giving $150M for a football stadium. That is the overiding issue.

Actually, what he said was there was a “psychological disconnect”. What he means is that, while the particular proposal wasn’t going to impact the State budget at all, and in fact would’ve served as a beneficial economic boost to the local construction economy (and would’ve been paid off by funds that wouldn’t start to be collected until 2013), the electorate (and some legislators) weren’t familiar with the details of this proposal and thus, would have a hard time understanding why the legislature would consider it. And thus legislative support crumbled when they realized voting to grant King County the authority to continue those taxes might potentially cost them votes the next time they were up for re-election.

We can argue about whether continuing those tourist taxes in King County beyond 2013 and spending them on (among many other things) Husky Stadium & Key Arena would be the best possible use of that revenue, but it’s a fact that passing SB6116 wouldn’t have had any impact on the State budget.

by kirkd on Apr 28, 2009 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woodward is an absolute joke.

So, let me get this straight Mr. Woodward…WSU fans had nothing to do with the failure of the legislation, but the WSU Administration did? Even though they’ve gone out of their way publically to say that their official position on this issue is neutral? What were Floyd and Sterk to do, send in the Gestapo to “take care” of the vocal few Cougs that were very much against this measure?

If this is the way Woodward goes about his business, he’s going to be an EPIC failure!

by '03CouveCoug on Apr 28, 2009 3:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Fascism, what fascism?

Woodward probably could teach a class on the subject. Der Fuehrer Woodward of course. ;)

by BornCoug on Apr 28, 2009 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your writing is just awesome Nuss.

So insightful and with that small tint of Cougar bias which is clearly evident yet adequately curbed.

I honestly loled after reading this line:

That’s right: The AD of the University of Washington just went to the press and called your AD and school president cowards.

by cfred on Apr 28, 2009 4:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The Husky Point of View

WSU should have stayed out of it and remained neutral at the very least. When you have one of your own trustee’s leading a campaign against it you put yourself and the institution you are unofficially representing on the firing line for really no good apparent reason.

Woodward’s bone of contention is that the WSU administration said they were neutral in public then encouraged the protests in private. In reality what is good for either school is good for the other. WSU should have supported the proposal or just kept quiet.

No matter what Woodward says it was the Cougar group who derailed this. The Senate was on the verge of passing it till the final week when they stepped up the effort. Unfortunately they also ruined any chance for the City of Seattle to claim $30 million from Clay Bennett. The WSU athletic department should hit him up for a donation. He owes you big time!

As far as the Apple Cup goes the two schools could have just switched off being the host and the ticket allocation problem would have been solved. Don’t buy the WSU admin’s argument that the reason the deal folded was because UW wanted 7,000 more tickets allocated on a yearly basis. It simply died because UW decided not to participate after SB 6116 died.

I like Nuss feel this all could have been handled better. I don’t wish WSU any ill will but they certainly crossed a serious line on this one and there will be more payback then just the collapse of the Apple Cup deal. Look forward to a sad era where the schools no longer cooperate with each other in any way.

Who are the losers in all this?

All of Us!

Cougar and Husky fans both end up losing because of the selfish misguided acts of a few morons!

The Coug’s win the battle but will lose a war they never had anything to gain by starting.

Washington will survive just fine but unfortunately WSU has put itself in a position to be hurt for no good reason other than to spit in the eye of the Husky one last time.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 28, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

How do you know?

Honestly, how could you know that protests were encouraged in private by Floyd and Sterk? And since when can’t a person express their belief regarding a political and tax issue as a single entity? Doesn’t matter that a trustee was against this issue, because he never said that he was representing WSU’s interest! By your logic, if I work for Starbucks and express in an open forum that I’m in favor of abolishing Roe vs. Wade, then that must mean Starbucks is anti-choice!

While I agree that this entire situation (Apple Cup at Qwest, SB 6116) could have been handled in a MUCH more amicable way by both parties, it doesn’t change the fact that what your esteemed AD is quoted as saying is foolish at best and defamatory at worst. All of this bickering is really just plain sad.

The best solution for everyone involved would be to just take a break for awhile and let the dust settle. Then go back to the business of renovating our own stadiums ON OUR OWN. Oh, and maybe go back to focusing on winning ballgames…which would alleviate both program’s financial issues.

by '03CouveCoug on Apr 28, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then go back to the business of renovating our own stadiums ON OUR OWN.

Never mind that Martin Stadium was build and re-built with State funds, while Husky Stadium was built without State funds…

by kirkd on Apr 28, 2009 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The subsidy has been going on for around 60 years at an inflation adjusted rate of $2 million per year.

What would it take to build the Beasley Performing Arts Center today?

What would it take to build Martin Stadium from scratch today?

We are talking a lot more than $150 million dollars.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 28, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, I'm sure

We’ve been getting $2MM per year for 60 years. Get a grip!

by '03CouveCoug on Apr 28, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What part of

inflation adjusted rate
did you not follow?

by kirkd on Apr 28, 2009 8:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's false

You are making an assumption. Athletic budgets 30-60 years ago were not nearly as big as they are today whether you adjust for inflation or not.

Come clean, you are making an assumption hear correct? A dangerous assumption as well.

by BornCoug on Apr 28, 2009 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There is some level of assumption, yes. “Dangerous” assumption? I guess that’s in the eye of the beholder.

But let’s follow this line of argument. Let’s say that the amount of public funds allocated to WSU’s athletic department for as long as they’ve been around, adjusted for inflation, is not $150M more than whatever public funds the UW athletic department has ever received. Why is this so bad? After all, as it stands right now, WSU’s athletic department has received vastly more public funding than has the UW’s, both adjusted for inflation and in actual dollars.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And for the record, had SB6116 passed (or if a version of it passes in the future), I sincerely doubt the UW would get more than half of what they’re asking for.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A point I made in my original post

Which gets back to the inability of the proponents to get their message out.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, that's the same...

Yep, the wooden bleachers built in 1936 as Rogers Field and the rebuild in 1970 after some crazy hippie burned down Rogers is completely the same as the UW’s $150MM “upgrade” grab.

From the WSU official site "In the interim, a one-million dollar fund drive began after the decision was made to rebuild the stands rather than relocate or build an entirely new stadium. WSU launched a two-phase renovation plan that created a two-tiered structure that held 17,500, replacing the old seating capacity of 10,000 and increasing the total seating capacity to 30,000. Dan Martin, a Los Angeles businessman, gave $250,000 to the project with the stipulation the stadium be renamed after his father, Clarence D. Martin, governor of Washington state from 1933-40. "

So, at most, the state put, what, $500,000 total into what is currently Martin Stadium?

Let’s look at the history of Husky Stadium…from the official UW site "Built in 1920 at a cost of $600,000, the stadium’s initial capacity was listed at 30,000. The stadium was opened in the dedication game, November 27, 1920, when Dartmouth defeated Washington, 28-7. A student fund drive, in which students and businessmen sold plaques at $50 and $100 levels, provided the capital necessary to get the project off the ground. "

Notice how it says “off the ground?” Doesn’t say “totally fund.”

“In 1950, Husky Stadium was again expanded when roof-covered stands were added to the south side. Approximately 15,000 additional seats, at a cost of $1.7 million”

“In 1987, Husky Stadium expanded once again, adding 13,000 new seats. The $13 million project, performed by Lydig Construction of Spokane, brought the capacity to 72,500.”

“In 1989, all major construction in Husky Stadium was concluded with the replacement of the west stands. The $3.7 million facelift gives Husky fans better seating…”

At no point does it ever say that all funding of the stadium and the corresponding dredging, water removal, etc. was entirely funded privately.

So, our less than one million over more than a century for Rogers/Martin vs. what has been expended on Husky stadium…do you really want to make that arguement?

by '03CouveCoug on Apr 28, 2009 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Notice it doesn't say...

is not a sound argument. If your asserting that Husky Stadium has been built with public funds than you need some sort of substaniating evidence. Throwing dates and unclear sentances into a comment does not prove anything.

Washington season-ticket holders, in particular, had complained about potentially not having access to tickets to the Qwest Field game. Washington’s request for a greater share of tickets apparently came in the past few days.

from The Seattle Times

Notice how it says the request came in the last few days…it doesn’t say that UW did that because of the WSU against Husky Stadium funding campaign…quite peculiar.

They hold the same amount of water.

The only fact I can see right now is the fact that WSU alums helped kill funding for Husky Stadium and helped cost the city of Seattle $30 million.

by B Money on Apr 28, 2009 6:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zing!

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 28, 2009 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not true...

all this bill does is allow King County to extend a tax. It does not authorize any spending, it merely leaves it to the county to decide the fate of an extended tax and forces bennett to give the city $30 million. Down the road it might save the county whatever it would have given to UW. Seems to me that the WSU campaign helped cost Seattle $30 million and any possibility of a new NBA franchise for the next 10-15 years.

by B Money on Apr 29, 2009 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clearly, you're looking for a scapegoat

And if you — and other Huskies — are looking that hard for one, then there’s not going to be any amount of reasoning we could provide that would convince you otherwise.

The reality is this: If this bill had any kind of momentum behind it, a handful of vocal Cougs could not have killed it. Those familiar with the legislature know that these kinds of deals get worked out behind closed doors independent of what the constituencies say. I’ve seen plenty of bills that seem to have the public behind them that get killed because of back-room politics, and vice versa.

Quit looking for someone to blame and let’s all just get on the same page so we can start working together to benefit each other. This kind of bickering is so counterproductive.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 8:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone is looking for a scapegoat.

this story has one ultimate ending – the funding of a new stadium. It won’t be deniable, even if it is delayed. What shocks everyone in the western part of the state are the very things Nuss has previously written about – the fact that the vocal Coug minority on the issue just burnt through every little bit of political capital that WSU ever had and that Sterk was complicit in allowing it to happen.

Its more shock than bitterness.

"Greed is Good."
So is Rudy.

by Gekko Mojo on Apr 29, 2009 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No...

but it is the Alums running the anti 6116 campaign fault (at least partially) that they shut down a bill that doesn’t even give the money to UW, it allows the extension of a tax and gets the minimum done to get the rest of Clay’s money.

Everyone says that $150 million was going to be handed over as soon as this passes, it’s just not true. UW piggybacked onto this bill because to get it’s own bill passed would be redundent. They would have to use this tax to get there money so they threw their support on it hoping to get it passed this session. My guess is that they assumed that reasonable Cougs like Nuss would look at it and realize that it helps everyone and that they could go to the state next year and get their money to finish Martin.

by B Money on Apr 29, 2009 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Husky Stadium was originally built with private funds and student fees – no State funding.

I don’t know about the 1950 South upper deck expansion – it’s certainly possible that State funding helped.

The 1987 North upper deck expansion was built with private donations and athletic department funds – no State funding.

So, it’s possible that there has been State funding of Husky Stadium, but at most (assuming the 1950 expansion was solely State funds, which is highly unlikely) it’s been for only 1 of 3 periods of building/expansion.

But my main point is that it’s a bit disingenuous to talk about renovating stadiums “on our own” when previous renovations, as well as original construction of the two main WSU sports facilities were at least partially funded by the State in contrast to the same facilities at the UW.

Martin Stadium was partially funded by the State in 1970 to replace Rogers Field, and was again partially funded by the State in 1979 when the stadium was renovated. Friel Court was partly funded by the State. And the WSU athletic department has been subsidized by State funds for decades. Add all those items up and account for inflation, and I bet that total is quite comparable to what the UW is currently asking for.

by kirkd on Apr 28, 2009 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

South Deck

The funds were privately raised in the early 1950’s led by AD Harvey Cassill and booster Torchy Torrance.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 28, 2009 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is just silly

People have the right believe in or support whatever they want. They also have live with the results of their decisions. Since when has WSU renovated or built anything without public assistance? The current plan for remodeling Martin isn’t going to fly and that is why it has been mothballed. I for one have had no problem with WSU getting assistance in the past, now and in the future.

Floyd and Sterk were given a chance to get control of the situation and they simply declined.

Why does debating with a Coug always remind me of the scene in Monty Python where the French were raining barn animals and excrement on the English from atop the castle walls while thumbing their noses?

Wasn’t Logic a required class in Pullman?

by John Berkowitz on Apr 28, 2009 5:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There you go again...

Because someone has the audacity to challenge your writing/opinion, you immediately resort to “Dumb Cougar” name calling as usual Mr. Berkowitz. Perhaps we’d take you more seriously if you showed us a little respect rather than hurling your usual insults.

“Floyd and Sterk were given a chance to get control of the situation and they simply declined.”

And why shouldn’t they? Again, for the adminsitration try to tell a person who is acting on his own behalf what he can or cannot say about a tax that said person disagrees with is preposterous. The trustee WASN’T acting on behalf of WSU! He can complain about whatever he wants!

by '03CouveCoug on Apr 28, 2009 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Forgive me

My Logic class at WSU didn’t come with Purple glasses.

if people have the right to support whatever they want, and speak as individuals why exactly is an institution responsible for their actions? Don’t forget the individuals were not speaking on behalf of or working for the institutiuon

John B logic
WSU got state money for Martin, therefore UW should get county tax revenue?

You are aware that the UW is a State institution, right?

by woolybugger on Apr 28, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

WSU got state money for Martin, therefore UW should get county tax revenue?

Why not? Games at Husky Stadium generate quite a bit of the tax revenue that the UW is seeking to tap. And if King County were to decide to contribute money towards a Husky Stadium remodel, why would the fact it’s a State facility matter?

Let’s keep in mind that SB6116 would simply authorize King County to spend those extended tourist taxes towards Husky Stadium, not compel it to do so.

by kirkd on Apr 28, 2009 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on
“Games at Husky Stadium generate quite a bit of the tax revenue that the UW is seeking to tap.”

Get a grip. Maybe a bit. But I’d guess of all the restaurant goers and hotel stayers and car renters in King County in a given year, only an extremely small fraction are derived from UW football games.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 28, 2009 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

incoming 'grip'

tourists spending

HS = 28M
KingCO = 5B
State = 15B

too lazy to pull up the links, again

But that still has nothing to do with the fact that HS is a state building trying to access county taxes.

by woolybugger on Apr 28, 2009 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not to mention

a remodel isn’t going to bring any more taxes in….

let’s raise $150M of king county money to pay for state property when the net gain for a remodeled stadium for the county is less than zero.

who wouldn’t sign up for that?

by BigWood on Apr 28, 2009 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So only private entities that threaten the regions with professional franchise blackmail and then don’t share the profits generated by the publicly funded stadiums they desire should get the benefit?

I guess I’m not thrilled with rewarding the blackmailers and then saying to the entity that can’t blackmail the region, and has in fact been contributing tourist tax revenues for over 80 years, “Sorry – not gonna help you out. We only help out private entities that blackmail us.”

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 8:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that still has nothing to do with the fact that HS is a state building trying to access county taxes.

And you still haven’t explained why that’s a bad thing. If SB6116 had passed, and King County had decided to allocate some of that extended tax revenue towards Husky Stadium, why shouldn’t they have that right? Why is taking some of the tax revenue that Husky Stadium helps generate and spending it on Husky Stadium a bad thing?

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's an accounting thing

State capital should be using state funds is the argument, I think.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose, though I’m not really sure why this should necessarily be the case.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 10:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I didn’t word that clearly. What I meant was, if you look at the individual things that drive those tourist tax revenues, Husky Stadium is a significant contributor.

More to the point, if you compare Husky Stadium to Qwest Field & Safeco Field, the numbers are very comparable. The public funded $270M of Qwest and over $300M of Safeco; is it so outrageous to compare the amount of tourist taxes generated by all three stadiums and say that Husky Stadium has an argument for $150M from the same source that build Safeco & Qwest Fields?

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 8:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are quite the conpiracy theorist!

Sterk and Floyd secretly orchestrated the smear campaign from behind closed doors! WSU really did derail this, despite your own athletic director saying the contrary! The Apple Cup deal died because UW walked away, despite every published report to the contrary!

Your point that we are all the losers is correct and well taken, but on this other stuff … you seriously need to get a grip. If you want to spread unsubstantiated rumors, do so on your own site. This is the last time you’ll do it here. Next time, I’ll just delete the comment.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 28, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Read the newspaper

Nothing i have said hasn’t been printed in the newspaper.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 28, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Deletion

I mean seriously just because you choose not to agree your only argument is deletion? It is public record that a WSU trustee ran the campaign.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 28, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then dig up some links

You made three accusations:

1. Sterk and Floyd encouraged the actions of the opponents from behind closed doors.
2. WSU fans killed 6116. Your AD said the opposite.
3. The Apple Cup deal died because UW walked away. Every report says otherwise.

Dig up the links that contradict those three erroneous statements and I’ll apologize. We are not in the business of spreading unsubstantiated rumors. If you like that for your site, fine. We don’t like it for ours. So dig up some links. I’ll give you 24 hours from your last comment, at which time I’m just going to ban you because it’s our site and you and your pomposity just won’t take a hint.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 28, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you can ban me if you want. If the only way you can debate anything is to delete, or ban then I guess it is your problem. I will however take you up on your challenge.

1. “WSU felt it was not appropriate for the institution for us to ask for any stadium support during this legislative session,” Sterk said. “The legislature and the governor, they were already facing all the significant challenges of the economic crisis. So that’s why we didn’t take a position.”

Up until now they said they were neutral. Today it comes out in the Spokesman Review that they were against it all along.

2. Scott Woodward deflected criticism toward the WSU administration rather then give credit to the Cougar alumni opposition group which is the smart thing to do. Why give credit when it empowers them more? They achieved their goal but left a lot of scorched earth behind them. Once again I don’t think what they did benefits WSU.

Senator Murray however said that they had enough votes for SB6116 to pass in the house but the GOP wavered in their supports after so many emails and phone calls from the Cougar opposition group.

3. Woodward wasn’t as specific as WSU AD Jim Sterk in saying that it broke down over tickets, though he admitted that was part of it - there was a concern about making sure that as many UW season ticket holders would be able to get in.

"I think there were other issues out there as well,’’ he said.

Hmmm…other issues as well? Could it be that UW was a little hacked off by what was going on in Olympia?

My sources are telling me that was exactly what happened. Would you expect that to help the negotiations with UW. Putting butts in the seats for the Apple Cup in Husky Stadium has never been a problem by the way.

The ticket issue could have been resolved by each team rotating as the home team each year just like they do now. You know that as well as I do.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 29, 2009 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Predictably, you fail yet again

1. What part of “that’s why we didn’t take a position” sounds like they were against it all along? Classic John Berkowitz ridiculous leap of logic.

2. The second one has merit … if you think that the guy who made an abysmal mess of the whole thing isn’t going to find someone else to blame. The bottom line is that HE screwed it up by not ensuring that his votes were ironclad. If a bill that had so much else going for it truly was sunk by a handful of vocal WSU boosters, then it was Senator Ed Murray who failed as a politician. I’ve been around the legislative process enough to understand that it’s the backroom deals that get this kind of stuff done. But don’t just take my word for it — take Art Thiel’s.

3. Everything you said here does not back up your original assertion that UW walked away. Rumors and speculation … but no hard, on-the-record facts. Par for the course for you.

I would call that three out of three, although some might argue that’s just two out of three. Get lost.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way

It’s only constructive debate if both sides are willing to listen to each other and work together. You’ve not demonstrated that ability, which doesn’t even take into account the palpable condescension in your posts. CougCenter will not be the platform for your unsubstantiated propaganda any longer.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The second one has merit … if you think that the guy who made an abysmal mess of the whole thing isn’t going to find someone else to blame. The bottom line is that HE screwed it up by not ensuring that his votes were ironclad. If a bill that had so much else going for it truly was sunk by a handful of vocal WSU boosters, then it was Senator Ed Murray who failed as a politician. I’ve been around the legislative process enough to understand that it’s the backroom deals that get this kind of stuff done. But don’t just take my word for it — take Art Thiel’s.

If you’ve been around the legislative process, you know that many bills pass on the slimmest of margins and often rely on shaky support. Is it really so hard to believe that Murray really did have enough votes at one point until a last minute blitz of lobbying (at least in part by organized Cougars) softened support enough to kill the majority that Murray needed?

I think blame for this bill not passing can be spread around a large number of people – the vocal Cougs that organized against it, Senators Murray & Kohl-Welles for not adequately explaining the rationale for this bill to constituents who viewed this as a bad time economically to push for public funding of stadium renovation, Scott Woodward & Mark Emmert for not more effectively lobbying the State legislature to explain why this bill had merit from the point of view of the UW, the City of Seattle for not lobbying effectively enough for the Key Arena component of the bill. It’s not simply Murray’s fault, and it’s not simply the vocal Coug fans fault. But those Coug fans did have an impact. The fact that Woodward has publicly downplayed their impact is typical public political posturing – as I’ve pointed out elsewhere, what good does it do him to give them credit and embolden them further for similar situations in the future?

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Best take yet

I’ve never tried to absolve these vocal Cougs from their part in all of this; I’ve just tried to say that it’s a gross oversimplification to blame it all on them, which is what many people have Tried to do.

Well said, sir. Rec’d.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 6:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your right...

But you fail to mention one other group that needs to own up to some blame. If vocal Cougs can impact the bill to kill it, vocal husky alum could have impacted the bill to pass it. I personally have no issue with Husky stadium getting the money, and being a King County resident, with paying into fixing the stadium. It’s a city and state landmark, and should be preserved at least as a safety measure.

But I think Husky’s need to look at themselves a little bit in all this as well. UW Alum should have been actively courting King county voters (so that they would see the benefit) and the state legislature (so that they support it). The vocal minority of Coug alum could easily have been negated by a vocal minority of UW alum, in my opinion.

by 02Coug on Apr 29, 2009 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The vocal minority of Coug alum could easily have been negated by a vocal minority of UW alum, in my opinion.

I will grant you that some blame goes on UW supporters not voicing their opinions enough to their legislators. But I think the default position of legislators on this issue in these economic times is “no”, so I think it was easier for those lobbying “no” to be effective than those lobbying “yes” – [lack of] political courage and all that…

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do agree with that completely

It’s not a good time to be arguing that money should be spent on a stadium, especially in a city/county that is traditionally anti stadium spending. And ultimately this bill was a county issue, or a county tax, and I would have been interested in how the county would have reacted had it passed the state.

Ultimately, I’m sad to see the bill die not just for Husky stadium, but for Key Arena and especially the Seattle Center. The whole center really needs to be made vibrant again.

by 02Coug on Apr 30, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nuss, are you a communist?

What ever happened to freedom of speech? You asked him a question, he answered it in a very civil manner, and you ban him? Can’t handle a lit debate, huh? Sounds like communism to me!

"Bow Down to Washington"
"Kick the tires and light the fires!"

by Lear Pilot on Apr 30, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yup

Me an Barack Obama. Secretly planting the seeds of communism.

In all seriousness, John and I have gone over the reasons why he was banned, which extend beyond just this — this was just the final straw. If you objectively look at the links he provided, they do not back up what he said. We have a community here where we expect certain standards, and stating things as fact that you can’t back up is just not OK. It’s what separates us from the message boards at Cougfan or Dawgman, and we like it that way.

At any rate, John and I have worked through it, and things are cool. He has been unbanned, and welcome to rejoin the conversation.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 30, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you are telling me

that everything on this blog is proven and verified? There are no assumptions, no conjectures, and that everything said here is backed up with evidence that supports the facts? That’s about as likely as WSU running their athletic program with out ANY funds over and beyond what the athletic department itself brings in.

"Bow Down to Washington"
"Kick the tires and light the fires!"

by Lear Pilot on Apr 30, 2009 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Conjecture based on verifiable facts are welcome

In teaching, we call this modeling:

Not OK: “Woodward’s bone of contention is that the WSU administration said they were neutral in public then encouraged the protests in private.”

Problem: Nowhere in that story did Woodward say this. It’s purported as fact — a fact that smears the character of two guys — which it’s not. You can’t find anywhere on the Internet where it’s been reported by a reputable source that the WSU administration encouraged the protests in private.

Stick to the facts and reach defensible conclusions. Like this:

OK: “Woodward’s bone of contention is that the WSU administration said they were neutral. But not working to stop it is tantamount to encouraging it.”

See the difference? If you’d like to go on a hunt of our comments to see what you can find, be my guest. But I’m betting you won’t find nearly as much as you think you will.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 30, 2009 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Teaching, Modeling, and showing logic

Nuss, if we can get Husky alums to understand this, maybe there is hope we can get our students to understand it ;)

by 02Coug on Apr 30, 2009 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not quite sure what this has to do with communism

A societal structure based an sharing of property and community ownership of industry.

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 30, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Show me a communist country ...

that welcomes free speech.

"Bow Down to Washington"
"Kick the tires and light the fires!"

by Lear Pilot on Apr 30, 2009 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't

But “Communist countries” are not an example of communism. They are countries run by a party that uses the name “Communist.”

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 30, 2009 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Must be Coug logic

If all “communist countries” are not an example of communism, then what exactly is communism?

So according to that logic, just because a football team goes 0-12, that doesn’t mean we are losers, we can still call ourselves winners!!!

"Bow Down to Washington"
"Kick the tires and light the fires!"

by Lear Pilot on Apr 30, 2009 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You sure can

As long as we can still do the same after 69-0 losses.

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 30, 2009 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to sound too much like a History/Gov teacher

Communism is a theory. In theory, a communist country is based, as Nuss said, on the sharing of property and communal ownership.

While all “communist” countries have revoked free speech, they have also invariably revoked all that true “communists” value by destroying what they are supposed to value and creating an elite class that has complete control, aka fascism.

Communism in principle doesn’t revoke free speach, just like supporting socialized medicine isn’t a communist ideal…but that’s a different can of worms.

by 02Coug on Apr 30, 2009 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like I said . . .

If it looks like a terd, and smells like a terd, it’s a terd!

"Bow Down to Washington"
"Kick the tires and light the fires!"

by Lear Pilot on May 1, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your sources?
My sources are telling me that was exactly what happened.

I thought the whole point of your post was to bring out where you were getting your information. Not so that you could hide behind the phrase “my sources”. My guess is that “my sources” really mean “my intuition”.

by cfred on Apr 29, 2009 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

John is connected to a lot of influential boosters for the UW. Doesn’t mean his “sources” are always accurate, but John isn’t just some random guy posting on the interwebs and making stuff up out of thin air.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, but ...

Imagine if a newspaper had every story filled with anonymous sources with none of them on the record. Their credibility would start to wear a little thin, no? Even Woodward and Bernstein, with the power of the Washington Post behind them, had people questioning whether Deep Throat really existed …

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, and I’m sensitive to the fact that we are moving into a new era in news media, and that the web does not always hold itself to similar journalistic standards established in the print and broadcast media.

I wonder though, do you and Grady hold yourselves to the same standards you were applying to John – i.e., do you only every publish stories and commentaries that include publicly verifiable information?

Ultimately, it’s an issue between you and John, but from my perspective I didn’t see him acting like a troll that needed to be banned.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

As a journalism educator and having at one time been a working journalist ...

… yeah, I hold myself to that standard, and expect everyone else here to abide by that standard, too. Even rumors need to have some sort of sourcing.

There is one article recently where I used unnamed sources, but I put it out there as a, “Hey, this is what someone told me. I’m not saying it’s correct or incorrect, but if it were true, it might be something to consider.”

When things are put out there as fact that can’t be substantiated by good reporting — e.g. Sterk and Floyd were actively working to tank this thing behind closed doors — we just will not let that go. No matter who the person is. Trust me, there have been a few of our regular readers around here who have gotten a slap on the wrist for saying things like, “My brother’s roommate’s friend’s girlfriend’s cousin once had a class with so-and-so and he said …” That’s for Cougfan and Dawgman. Not us.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

WSU really did derail this, despite your own athletic director saying the contrary!

I interpret Woodward’s comments this way – he doesn’t want to further encourage Cougar alum efforts to derail future efforts for public funding for Husky Stadium by giving them credit for killing SB6116, but he knows that was a big part and he knows Sterk & Floyd know the same, and he’s sending shots over the bow to warn them that if they want a fight he’s willing to oblige.

As far as the Apple Cup at Qwest, I’m confused – I’ve seen a lot of Cougar fans that were up in arms over the proposal, so it’s not like the UW killing this deal should be viewed unfavorably by all Coug supporters. As a Husky season-ticket holder I wasn’t thrilled with the idea that I wouldn’t necessarily be guaranteed an opportunity to buy Apple Cup tickets every other year as I currently do with my season ticket package. Is that not a legitimate concern?

I agree that it’s really too bad that things have devolved to this level, but from the Husky perspective it sure feels like it was started by an organized group of Cougs sticking their nose into this for questionable reasons, and those efforts were at best not discouraged and at worst they were encouraged by Sterk & Floyd.

Hopefully Emmert & Woodward can sit down with Floyd & Sterk and frankly address the state of things for the two schools and athletic departments and come to a collaborative consensus that benefits both schools rather than each school trying to tear the other one down – in that scenario, both schools lose and the rest of the Pac-10 (especially the Oregon schools) benefit.

by kirkd on Apr 28, 2009 6:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sterk said in a recent chat that he thought this kind of proposal was "inappropriate" in this economic climate

So, their silence on the issue would be logical, no? There’s nothing sinister about that, no matter how you want to try and spin it.

As to Coug fans being upset about the Apple Cup in the first place, I think most warmed up to the idea when we started learning just how much it would help the athletic department. But that’s not the point here. The point is that the UW was arrogant enough — VERY LATE IN THE PROCESS — to ask for something that would shift the competitive balance of it. That leaves you to draw one of two conclusions:

1. The UW was trying to torpedo the deal, knowing WSU would walk away.
2. The UW thought they could just bully a desperate athletic department.

Neither one reflects very well on your AD.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 28, 2009 10:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

1. The UW was trying to torpedo the deal, knowing WSU would walk away.
2. The UW thought they could just bully a desperate athletic department.

Neither one reflects very well on your AD.

I think it’s pretty easy to read between the lines and see that it was #1 in your scenarios. And why does that reflect poorly on our AD? Unlike John, I don’t think the UW backed out of the Apple Cup at Qwest primarily because SB6116 didn’t pass and they were upset at Coug alums that lobbied against it (though I think that was part of it) – I think it was a vocal segment of Husky season ticket holders that were balking at the possibility that they wouldn’t be able to see every other Apple Cup as part of their season ticket package as they currently do.

So, their silence on the issue would be logical, no? There’s nothing sinister about that, no matter how you want to try and spin it.

I don’t think they did anything “sinister”. I just think they didn’t think through how beneficial it would’ve been to support the UW’s effort, and at the very least inform the organized and vocal Cougs opposing this proposal that they should re-think their position as ultimately it would help the Cougs.

Obviously the difference for the two schools is that the UW was targeting a King County tax, and a type of tax that has no direct bearing on the current fiscal crunch facing the State budget. WSU would have to rely on State funds, and right now that’s a non-starter given the economy. WSU could lobby Whitman County to establish similar tourist taxes as exist currently in King County and funnel those proceeds towards Martin Stadium, but I’m not sure if the return would be worth the effort and whether such an effort would pass. I don’t know – do you have any idea if such a proposal would fly, and if WSU has looked into it?

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm...

I still don’t know if Woodward tops Todd Turner in terms of arrogance.

I still hate Turner more, if for no other reason than setting June Daugherty’s WSU rebuilding process back a year. Oh, and also for firing her, when she clearly didn’t deserve it.

by Grady. on Apr 28, 2009 5:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

At least Turner wasn't slimy

If he was a better politician, he probably wouldn’t have been forced out of his job by one, only to see that man take his job …

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 28, 2009 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woodward reminds me of Clay Bennett....

He even looks like him. He certainly acts like him also. Check it out. Just saying….

by SW WA Coug on Apr 28, 2009 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I still have hope that something positive will come out of all this....

eventually (fingers and toes crossed).

It should be a pretty interesting atmosphere at Husky Stadium next Nov. 28 if we continue down this current path. Talk about living vicariously through our football team. Just saying….. That will be one mighty important football game.

by SW WA Coug on Apr 28, 2009 5:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I love how Berkowitz

believes that independent WSU alumni should blindly ‘bow down to washington’. By this logic, any elected politician who went to a state college in Washington is ‘unofficially representing’ their Alma mater in every political vote regarding higher education.

by peaty411s on Apr 28, 2009 10:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I never said that

I respect their right to do hatever they want, or believe whatever they want.

My point is that it hurt WSU down the road more than it actually helped them,

I have always said what is good for UW is also good for WSU. I wouldn’t have had a problem if WSU had asked the Legislature for money to remodel and expand Martin Stadium. Husky and Martin Stadiums are both owned by the State of Washington. So in my opinion the state has a responsibility for both.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 29, 2009 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

isn't this the exact point Nuss made before?

…so why did JB get banned if he agreed with you? Only a coug …

(okay, that was not condescension, just playful frivolity…can’t we all just get along???)

"Greed is Good."
So is Rudy.

by Gekko Mojo on Apr 29, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone notice how there are three Huskies commenting on this issue ...

And all of them are trying to deflect the conversation away from the actual point of the post — that their athletic director has behaved like an arrogant ass? Nobody seems to be contesting that point.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 28, 2009 10:07 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I actually liked how Woodward responded

I thought it was really clever because it put Sterk into a defensive posture and he bit on it with a great comeback of his own.

I really don’t get the arrogant ass deal on this. The guy is just doing his job.

I think we should all sit back and enjoy it as it evolves. I am sure the rhetoric on both sides will continue.

I am a Husky but I don’t have anything against WSU till we play each other. I think a healthy WSU is a good thing.

The real enemy is down in Oregon. This was a great opportunity to put something together to counter that threat. I think the oregon schools are the real winners in any squabble between UW and WSU.

by John Berkowitz on Apr 29, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cougs always seem to view actions by Huskies as being “arrogant”. I don’t see Woodward’s actions as arrogant – I see him as being political of the type that is willing to engage in a fight. I guess I just don’t see the point of trying to argue whether Woodward was being arrogant or not, as it’s a matter of perception, and I really doubt we’ll change each other’s minds on that point.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

four.

"Greed is Good."
So is Rudy.

by Gekko Mojo on Apr 29, 2009 7:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep it cool Nuss ...

…. we love/hate Cougs in a big/little brother kind of way.

"Greed is Good."
So is Rudy.

by Gekko Mojo on Apr 30, 2009 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking for myself...

and maybe other Cougs…I hate the little brother/big brother analogy. I know that UW is bigger, has larger enrollment, etc. but I really think we are more peers then that analogy makes us seem. Both universities offer the state something unique, and have strengths the other lacks, making both vital to the state’s health and future.

by 02Coug on Apr 30, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed completely.

But I suspect Gekko used the analogy specifically because it gets a rise out of Cougars, all in the spirit of the rivalry.

by kirkd on Apr 30, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apple Cup

Shouldn’t every season ticket holder have a chance to see the biggest game of the year? WSU has a stadium that holds 30,000 and UW has 72,000 (both approximate). Quest, I believe is 65,000, meaning that that if every seat at Martin Stadium was a season ticket holder they wouldnt even be 1/2 the capacity of Quest. What do you need 1/2 the tickets for? UW on the other hand had 42,000 season ticket holders and would need more than half the seats to accomodate when they are the home team. Why should someone spend money on a season ticket but yet not have a guarantee seat at the biggest game of the year? This isn’t as simple as a 50-50 split because the two schools are not equal in terms of season ticket holders.

As for the stadium bill. Its not a bill to give UW $150 million…its a bill to extend a King Co tax that is already in use for stadium upgrades. That is the point of the bill. Literally nothing would change except that it would be extend a couple of years. Why would WSU fans be so opposed to a tourist tax in King Co.??? If UW got $150 million don’t you think that WSU would be next in line they needed some money? I dont understand why these alum were so worried about a King Co tax state owned stadium. If you want to be up in arms about anything be mad that the Mariners and Seahawks got money for their stadiums which are owned by private entities. Think of all the construction jobs that would have been provided with the upgrades? That $150 million would have gone right back into the pockets of Washington state residence and been given right back to the Washington businesses, not to mention the additional $150 UW would have put in too. (Not all but a nice percentage of their wages would go back into the local economy.) I dont really understand why WSU is so opposed to this bill.

by bigdave967 on Apr 29, 2009 11:16 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

You need 50 percent of the tickets to maintain a neutral site atmosphere

What is so hard for people to understand about that?

As for the violent opposition to the bill, a lot of us around here don’t really understand it either, as you can read about here. But a lot of Huskies seemed to have missed the fact that that’s not really the point of this particular post.

by Jeff Nusser on Apr 29, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neutral Field

There doesnt need to be a 50/50 split when your team is supposed to be the “Home” team. When WSU is home they get all the tickets they need to give at least their season ticket holders a chance to go and when UW is the “home” team they get at least enough tickets to give one to all of their season ticket holders. What’s wrong with that? Whoever is supposedly the home team should have the opportunity to bring more fans. UW is being punished for having more season ticket holders than WSU has seats in your stadium. To me that isn’t right on years when UW is supposed to be the home team.

Personally I am really glad that this rivalry is hitting new heights, as long it doesn affect the students and athletes who attend the universities.

by bigdave967 on Apr 29, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not every UW season ticket holder gets to see the Apple Cup as it is now

So how is that a punishment?

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 29, 2009 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you read my post?

When the game is at Husky Stadium all season ticket holders get tickets for the game.

When UW is the “home” team they should allow all the season ticket holders the opportunity to get tickets for the game. Just like when WSU is the “home” team they should be given the same chance. Why punish UW because they have twice as many season ticket holders for home games?

by bigdave967 on Apr 29, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The point of the game is to have a neutral field

Why couldn’t those 11,000 Husky season ticket holders be rotated through. Many of the Coug season ticket holders, who live in Spokane and Pullman, would not be able to make it the game anyway. So I don’t buy this as being not fair for Husky season ticket holders.

Also, Did you read the post that you just commented on? This piece was simply about the reaction Woodward had to the failure of SB 6116. It was Husky fans who came in here and decided to start another argument over the justification of the bill, the renovation of Husky Stadium, and the Qwest Field Apple Cup.

If you had read previous posts you would know that Nuss and many of the readers of this site were fine with SB 6116 passing and not wholly against government funds being used for the renovation. Many of us condemned the Cougs who went out of their way to oppose this.

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 29, 2009 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why couldn’t those 11,000 Husky season ticket holders be rotated through. Many of the Coug season ticket holders, who live in Spokane and Pullman, would not be able to make it the game anyway. So I don’t buy this as being not fair for Husky season ticket holders.

You’re both wrong actually.

Qwest Field holds 67,000 for football. If you split tickets evenly between the schools, the UW gets 33,500 seats every year. Husky season ticket holders currently get to see Apple Cups every other year, so in the Qwest Field scenario, 67,000 Husky season ticket holders would get the opportunity to see the Apple Cup over a 2-year span – it’s just that half would be in even years, half in odd years.

Currently there are only about 42,000 Husky season ticket holders, so it’s not currently an issue – every season ticket holder would be able to attend 1 Apple Cup over a 2 years span, same as now. And many would actually be able to view 2 Apple Cups over a 2-year span since 67,000 > 42,000.

However, if Husky season ticket season ticket sales grow again to where they used to be, there will be more than 67,000 season ticket holders, and that would mean some wouldn’t be able to attend every other Apple Cup as they currently can.

It’s not currently an issue, so it’s a little disingenuous of my fellow Husky fans to complain about it too much, but it could become an issue down the road. Personally, I sure wouldn’t want to be facing a situation as a season ticket holder where I couldn’t be guaranteed a ticket to the Apple Cup every other year.

The point of the game is to have a neutral field

Let’s be honest – the point of the Qwest Field proposal was to generate more money than Apple Cups currently do on average. And on that point, WSU’s athletic department had a lot more to gain than did the UW’s.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good points

I guess I just don’t want to believe that the Huskies will ever be good enough to sell Husky Stadium out again. :-)

The “neutral field” comment I must quote Ron Burghundy by saying “I immediately regret this decision,” and I did when I posted it. Obviously the point of the game is $$$$.

I agree with you that the Qwest Field game could have been more beneficial for WSU’s athletic department, especially in terms of overall percentage of budgets. I really want the game to work, but if Sterk would have gave in and let the Huskies have 7,000 extra seats there would have been a violent uproar among Coug fans (worse than the one that was already going on).

This is where per game statistics go to die.

CougCenter

by Dancing Football on Apr 29, 2009 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

…but if Sterk would have gave in and let the Huskies have 7,000 extra seats there would have been a violent uproar among Coug fans (worse than the one that was already going on).

No doubt. I’m sure much of the opposition that Cougar fans had about this proposal was the thought that it would provide a competitive advantage to the UW, and tipping the seating annually in favor of the UW would only further that opposition.

And to be honest, I think some of the fear of UW fans about moving this game to Qwest was the possibility that it could be the first step in permanently moving the Huskies to Qwest – something that pretty much all Husky fans oppose.

by kirkd on Apr 29, 2009 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Its not anyones fault

Support on both sides was thin, yet both sides had things they needed or else they wouldn’t do it. UW wanted 42,000 seats in its home year to satisfy their season ticket holders. WSU said if we are traveling to your city to play the game,and you never have to come to Pullman, it has to be 50/50 seating or no deal. Both sides have completely valid points. It just didn’t work.

by peaty411s on Apr 30, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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