Declaration day: Pac-10's losers and winners
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 16, 2009 11:00 AM PDT
in The Pac-10
28 comments
The deadline for underclassmen to announce their final intentions for the NBA Draft came and went yesterday. Here's a quick look and the losers and winners, from biggest to smallest, along with my way-too-early Pac-10 power rankings for next season.
LOSERS
- USC: A couple of months ago, this pretty clearly would have been Arizona. Not anymore. Tim Floyd has resigned in disgrace and DeMar DeRozan, Taj Gibson and Daniel Hackett (!) are gone. I think it's become obvious that the program is in need of some serious house cleaning -- beyond these players leaving, there were some serious fractures on that team last year. The recruiting cupboard is all but bare, and there are likely sanctions on the way. Not a good day to be a Trojan. (But I guess we could say that about any day, right?)
- Arizona State: James Harden is gone, and anyone who watched the Sun Devils play when he wasn't on the floor the last two years -- or when his legs finally gave out from inexcusable overuse -- know what that means. Herb Sendek has what appears to be a good recruiting class coming in, but let's be frank: None of them are game changers like Harden. He was a special kind of player that made Sendek look like a darn good coach. Let's see what he can do now that he doesn't have Harden around to ride like Secretariat.
- Arizona: Boy, have the Wildcats pulled one heck of a magic act. In November, they were in complete disarray. Lute Olson was retiring just before the start of the season and their first choice for interim coach didn't want the job. Then, the season was mediocre by their standards, recruiting was at a standstill and it looked like their Big Three was bolting for the NBA. Now, they've got a fantastic coach in Sean Miller (after serendipitously being spurned by Tim Floyd), an unbelievable recruiting class considering the wreck this program was just a couple of months ago, and they're only losing Chase Budinger and Jordan Hill -- Nic Wise returns. Still not a great day for Arizona, but holy cow could it have been a lot worse.
- UCLA: Had UCLA successfully recruited a point guard for this draft class, I suppose it would be debatable whether UCLA even belonged in the loser category, even with the loss of Jrue Holiday, who was never as good in LA as he was supposed to be. But with Darren Collison graduating and Holiday staying in the draft, the Bruins have a ton of question marks at the lead spot. Their leading returning assist men? Nikola Dragovic and Michael Roll. Yeah.
WINNERS
- Cal: While traditional powers such as Arizona and UCLA got worse, Cal didn't have even one of its talented underclassmen test the draft waters. That means Jerome Randle, Patrick Christopher, Jamal Boykin and the rest of the Bears' roster will return. No team will be poised to take advantage of other teams' losses more than Cal, which will be a top 10 team heading into next season. The scary part is that they've got a coach who's used to his teams having to live up to high expectations. Watch out.
- Washington: At the end of the year, people actually said with a straight face that Isaiah Thomas might declare for the draft. He didn't, and neither did Quincy Pondexter. With a fantastic recruiting class coming in led by Abdul Gaddy, the only thing keeping the Huskies from being a winner on Cal's level is the enormous question mark in the frontcourt where Jon Brockman used to be.
- Washington State, Oregon State, Oregon, Stanford: This is a great time to be a program on the rise in the conference. After having some of the best teams in the country in 2007-08 and being unbelievably balanced last season, this figures to be a good time to be heading north, what with the traditional powers being down. There's room to move, and each of these programs have hope for the upcoming season that they can make that move.
Way-Too-Early Pac-10 Power Rankings
- Cal - New version of WSU 2007-08 ... but with more talent. Scary.
- Washington - Could easily repeat as Pac-10 champs if even one of their big men steps up inside. None of this foo-foo face up stuff; who will get dirty?
- UCLA - I'm betting Ben Howland can figure out an adequate solution at PG.
- Arizona - This shows just how fast it drops off after top 3. Depth still will be a major issue, but the combo of Wise and Fogg will make for a formidable backcourt.
- Oregon State - This is a tough one: Does the Pac-10 stop being fooled by the Princeton offense, or does OSU get even better after another year in the system?
- Arizona State - Still lots of experience here. Derek Glasser is underrated -- I understand, it's tough to take that chest hair seriously -- and Ty Abbott could be the breakout player of the year in the conference out of Harden's shadow.
- Washington State - My heart wants to rank the Cougs higher, but with a new coach and still loads of inexperienced players ...
- Oregon - Lots of talent. However, Ernie Kent doesn't exactly have a track record of coaching guys up to dramatic improvements between their first and second year. Look for the Ducks to be better in 2010-11. If Kent can hang on that long.
- Stanford - Big losses (Goods, Hill, Johnson) and a solid-but-unspectacular recruiting class don't scream "mover and shaker."
- USC - Until they get a coach and one or two of the as-yet-unsigned recruits, this is a team staring at the bottom of the conference.
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You’ve got it right—the NW is the place to be if you want to compete for time right away and be relevant in the conference in the next few years. Only UCLA and Cal can say they have those plans as far as California goes… Stanford and SC? It doesn’t look pretty.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
by ArbyOSU on Jun 16, 2009 3:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yay for basketball news!
Not that I mind football / track / baseball, but since most of the football news has been bad recently it is nice to see an optimistic article about my favorite sport!
I really have no idea how we are going to do next year. I think that our defense will still be good but on offense we are looking at needing large improvements from multiple players to do as well as we did last year. Hopefully a little more uptempo transition game will help Capers get some easy points, because unless he shot 20,000 jumpers this offseason I’m worried about our halfcourt offense.
Also, if Pondexter’s end-of-season exploits are sustained throughout the year (or even improved on) I see no reason why UW shouldn’t retain their title. I think Gaddy is the real deal and he will combine with Thomas to be the deadliest backcourt in the Pac 10. Cal could take the title but I think UW still has to be the favorite.
by johnnycougar on Jun 16, 2009 6:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't underestimate the loss of Brockman
The rest of their bigs on last year’s roster were soft with a capital S. Gant and Bryan-Amaning are athletic, but they prefer to play eight feet away from the basket. Will Trent or Garcia fill that void? Or are those two holdovers going to magically get tougher? Experience says you’ve either got toughness or you don’t — it’s not something you develop.
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 16, 2009 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
I wonder how much of that was gameplan-related though. You don’t normally want both your bigs crashing the boards all the time (Brockman crashing was a given) or you give up lots of transition opportunities. But it’s true they don’t try to post up down low as often as they could.
by johnnycougar on Jun 17, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could be true
But they really struggled when he wasn’t on the floor.
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 17, 2009 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Various thoughts
UCLA: Point guard isn’t their problem (Jerime Anderson was recruited as the next point guard). Shooting guard is, though. Howland’s either going with some kind of mega-roster with almost everyone over 6’6" (maybe Tyler Honeycutt is agile enough to be a SG… I’ll believe it when I see him on the court) or he’s starting Roll (not very agile either) or Lee (hasn’t shown he can actually, you know, shoot— not great when “shooting” is part of your job description). They have a really weird roster right now with almost everyone being a forward. On the other hand, the forwards are really talented. Clearly still a conference contender.
Washington: Have to figure them to slide back a little without Brockman making their awful eFG irrelevant. Abdul Gaddy should basically replace Dentmon.
Cal: Not much going out (Jordan Wilkes) but not much immediate coming in either (they got a big-body JUCO player [Markuri Sanders-Frison], a project with the hilarious name of Bak Bak, and a glue-guy point guard who relies more on savvy than athleticism [Brandon Smith]). Otherwise, same guys, hopefully with more NCAA tournament chutzpah. Omondi Amoke might be healthier and has a high upside. I guess they’re my pick to win it, but I feel like the odds aren’t better than 30% or so.
Oregon State: Big incoming class, only lose Rickey Claitt (who never, ever, ever shot the ball) and some nonentities. Roeland Schaftenaar is my current favorite player in college basketball. Should finish in the upper half.
Oregon: Loses nothing, gains Kyle Singler’s brother (who, however, isn’t nearly as good). I really have no idea what to expect from this group. Could finish third, could finish ninth.
Arizona: They sure pulled a rabbit out of a hat with their recruiting class, but there’s almost nothing on the current roster other than Nic Wise. Their defense next year could be frightfully bad, since about the only decent thing about it last season was Jordan Hill’s interior presence.
Arizona State: Losing the Natyazkho sweepstakes to an acephalous Arizona team has to have Herb Sendek grinding his teeth in his sleep. They aren’t exactly talentless per se, but last year’s edition was shallower than Jessica Simpson and they’re losing two all-conference types. I don’t really get how they’re supposed to “score” those “point” things.
Washington State: Sorry, Cougar fans, I’m just not real high on the current roster. Klay Thompson is a good start, but I can’t figure out who the supporting cast is going to be. Someone has to step up in a major way.
USC: They have nine scholarship players, and one of them is named Lil’ Romeo. The entire recruiting class has defected. I like Leonard Washington, Dwight Lewis is still there, and Alex Stepheson showed well at UNC before transferring. Other than that, um, yeah. Lil’ Romeo might actually be seeing some playing time. But because they have a better spread of talent among positions (the only really gaping chasm is at point guard), I like them better than…
Stanford: They have eight healthy scholarship players, and one of them is named Da’Veed Dildy. Two of the others transferred from WCC schools not named Gonzaga. Maybe Andy Brown makes a quick recovery from ACL surgery; otherwise, the PF position is going to be held down by some combination of the Three Stooges-like walk-on trio of Jack Trotter, Elliott Bullock and Matei Daian, and one of the aforementioned WCC transfers. Point guard figures to be a disaster (I’m pretty sure Drew Shiller’s middle name is NotAPointGuard). The really annoying thing is that the team could be even worse in 2010-2011, because Landry Fields is really good and (you heard it here first, folks) will be an NBA draft pick next season. If letting Trent Johnson walk wasn’t the single worst move by a college athletic director in the last 18 months, it has to be damn close.
Bottom line: This conference basically sucks. I’m predicting this order of finish:
Cal
UCLA
Washington
OSU
-Tournament cutoff-
ASU
Oregon
WSU
Arizona
USC
Stanford
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jun 16, 2009 6:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You can say Jerime Anderson was recruited to play point all you want
But the guy only averaged 8.6 minutes and played more than 10 minutes just once in their final 12 games. That sounds like a pretty enormous question mark to me.
At Washington Gaddy is a clear upgrade over Dentmon, the most overrated player in the Pac-10 last year. He’s perfect for Washington — pushes the ball, will distribute and most importantly gives them a guy in the backcourt with enough length to pair with Thomas. That’s huge.
Not sure if I agree with your assessment of Arizona. I think Kyle Fogg is a nice player, and Jamelle Horne is a nice piece, too. But it’s tough to know just what they’ve got there, because so few people outside of Budinger, Hill and Wise took shots.
As for the Cougs, you’re likely to see Bone throw waves of bodies at his opponents and ask them to go all out while in the game. It was a strategy that worked for him at PSU — check it out:
2009: Eight players above 39.9 percent with a high of 72.5.
2008: Seven players above 36.2 percent, with a high of 75.8.
2007: Eight players above 30.3 percent, with a high of 71.3.
2006: Eight players above 31.6, with a high of 82.7.
But you’re right — there are a TON of question marks surrounding the supporting cast.
And you’re also right this conference basically sucks. That’s what gives me hope for the Cougs.
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 16, 2009 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One other thing on Anderson
Assist Rate: 23.7
TO Rate: 32.5
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 16, 2009 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he fails, I guess it's Malcolm Lee at the point?
Lee/Roll/Honeycutt/Dragovic/Gordon? Nice height, but that team would maneuver like a World War I battleship…
Gaddy: I guess I’ve had enough experience with prospects of one flavor or another to be veeeery hesitant to call one a “clear upgrade” on any above-average starter (which, overrated or not, Dentmon was).
Zona: Jamelle Horne might have the worst basketball IQ of any player I’ve ever seen. Fogg looked solid; he’ll probably end up developing into an above-average SG by his junior year. I’m still suspicious about these guys’ defensive abilities, though. Obviously Budinger had a lot to do with the defensive woes, but the other guys on the court have to take at least a share of the blame, right? That said, sometimes the difference is all in the coaching— Cal moved from “awful” to “decent” in one season with mostly the same personnel and a different coach.
Cougs: I generally prefer to see coaches recruit to a “style,” but coach to the personnel they have, and right now the team seems to have a lot of spot shooters and not a whole lot else from an offensive standpoint. Desperately need major freshman production out of Thames and Motum.
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jun 17, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks everyone, I really enjoyed all of these posts....
I’m terribly excited for September to arrive and you’re already talking about basketball season? What’s a Coug junkie like me to do?
I’m going to refer back to all of this information when the season is about to start or has started to see how much of it is still valid.
Hurry up and put up some threads about the football team too. That’s where the majority of my attention is concentrated at this time. I wanna hear some good news out of Pullman, and plenty of it. Go Cougs!!!
by SW WA Coug on Jun 17, 2009 11:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
There just isn't much to talk about right now
We’ll ramp it up in August. That sounds like a long way away, but we’re really only about six weeks from the start of camp …
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 18, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Klay and DeAngelo....
Now that’s some incredibly good news!
by SW WA Coug on Jun 18, 2009 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Power Rankings
Looks predictable. Everything on UDub hinges on the bigs. If they don’t step up and fill the void of Brockman then we (meaning I) will have problems that the rest of the league will try to exploit.
On the other hand, losing the Bennetts could cripple WSU basketball. It could possibly send the program back to obscurity. Whether or not you want to believe it, the program was all about the Bennetts. It was the tempo in which the game was played that made the program a winner. Bennett achieved the impossible, he installed “stall ball” with a shot clock. I give Dick tremendous credit for installing such a slow tempo match up problem and the league definitely took notice.
Sounds as if the new coach coming in is upping the tempo. Really? Again the matchup problem with WSU was in fact the tempo. I don’t know, but I am dying to see if I am correct on this one. If I am, look for the program to slip back down again. Because honestly does WSU have enough athletic talent to push the ball more? We’ll see…
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 18, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I got a good laugh out of this post....
Do you know anything about basketball or did you just want to come over here to talk smack?
by SW WA Coug on Jun 18, 2009 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I came over to add input and offer something to the converstation- buddy
SW WA Coug look at what I posted. Then immediately following my well-thought out argument you post a run on sentence asking me if I came on here to talk smack.
Doesn’t sound like I am talking smack to me- I’m just offering you something to consider. From what I’ve seen before the Bennett’s arrived, WSU was laughable on the hardwood floor, so was the UofW before Romar. Now that the Bennetts are gone, their is a slight chance that this program tanks in again, much like if Romar were to leave [knock on wood].
Klay Thompson and Casto are key to WSU’s survival in basketball. I don’t think either of them have the exceptional talent to leave school early for the NBAbies. But consider this fella, if the new coach installs an uptempo style of play, then don’t you think the WSU niche is gone? The Bennetts brought in tough team defense and a stall offensive game with a shot clock. That was the niche WSU had over everybody else in league, that’s why everybody had problems dealing with WSU at Pullman and in their own gyms. The talent was good, but the scheme of things made the talent better and tailor-made for Cowgill, Low, and Weaver.
I hated the way the Cougs played ball, but I had no choice but to respect it (the program) and the Bennetts because it was a perfect system to run in the Pac 10. If you don’t see the brilliance of your own retired coach- Dick Bennett, then you my friend ’don’t know anything about basketball’.
Good luck to the Cougs (that coming from a Husky)
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 19, 2009 10:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Play nice you two
Don’t make me come spank you. Unless you like that kind of thing.
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 19, 2009 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No spanking necessary
I was merely adding something to think about regarding the future of WSU basketball. Dick Bennett was a border line genius involving the game of basketball. No one, and I mean no one outside of the WSU community ever saw this thing coming from the Cougs in basketball. Hell I’d wager that most Cougs didnt’ think bringing in an out dated and retired basketball coach from the Midwest was the answer. How wrong we all were thru out the entire Pac 10 landscape.
From an outsider, I thought Tony’s decision to leave was not a well thought out decision. Tony is in the ACC now and the Carolinas and Dukies rule all. Yet the nice thing about the location, Virginia is no where near the Carolinas. He is in fertile recruiting ground and only has to compete with Maryland in terms of recruiting. But will his system work at Virginia? Will the Cavelier brass offer him enough time to recruit towards it and show signs of improvement with it? Virginia is a well established basketball school, who may not offer him the amount of time it requires to recruit towards a new direction. Tony could be facing a quick exit to the unemployment line if things don’t work out. I thought he’d be a better fit in the Big 10, where his family roots are located.
I’m cool SW WA Coug, I’m not here to talk smack- just offering a WSU outsiders opinion.
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 19, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I apologize....
before even reading your posts. When I saw Nuss’ comments after I had posted my scathing remark I knew I had stepped over the line. I do react at times without thinking it through I guess. If I’ve embarassed my Coug brethren I apologize to them too.
Bad thing about my posts is I can’t take them back, which I would have in this case. Only Nuss and the moderators on this site are able to censure stupid posts. So now I’m out there for all to see. Oh, my!
Sincerely Sorry!
by SW WA Coug on Jun 19, 2009 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that's entirely accurate
I’m not sure I’d say the tempo was the matchup problem for other teams, per se — it’s what the Cougs did within that tempo. They executed like crazy, and played sound, tough as nails man-to-man defense. They had to, because they had worse athletes up and down the roster than anyone else, and that’s how they were able to bridge the gap.
However, the talent in this program is the highest it’s been since Kelvin Sampson was the coach. Is there enough to allow the athletes to operate with a little more freedom and play a gambling style of defense? Those are legitimate questions, and you’re right to be legitimately skeptical. As much as I think Bone was absolutely the right hire, I’m truly scared to death that we might not be able to win his way. We’ll see.
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 18, 2009 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has to be the Tempo
Nuss, even you just said it. “They had worse athletes”. Here’s what I am saying in a nutshell. Assemble a team of “worse” athletes together on a team. Now put a team loaded with talent on a baskeball team. Both teams play at the same tempo and what do you have? Since the teams are playing at the same tempo, more often then not the team with the loaded talent is going to win- right? It makes logical sense.
To beat a teams loaded with talent, the Bennetts knew they had to create a matchup problem involving tempo, because lord knows they didn’t have the talent to create player matchup problems. It was a system that was mastered by the players (Cowgill, Low, & Weaver). That system was tailor-made for those kids, especially Weaver, that guy was a nightmare in sneakers MAN! Once the team went all-in on the slow tempo system, the confidence level went thru the roof, and when that happens, the team had all the confidence in the world to ‘execute’ the offense.
It all started with Bennett’s vision of tempo and he recruited the perfect kids to run his system. I think Bone is absolutely nuts to upset that slow tempo offensive system. Hasn’t he ever heard the phrase- “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”
We’ll just have to stay tuned and see how all this plays out…
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 19, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bone has to be true to who he is, though
A coach can’t abandon his offensive and defensive philosophies because it worked for the guy before him. Had Bone tried to run a system like his with the guys that were here when Dick Bennett arrived, it would be a joke. But there is WAY more talent on this roster from top to bottom than at any time since 1995-96. Is that talent enough to win Bone’s way? We’ll see.
But I think the whole “Bone’s way” is becoming a bit of a misnomer anyway. To characterize him as a run-and-gun coach just isn’t accurate — PSU played at 65.7 possessions per game last year, 202nd nationally out of 340+ teams. In 2006 and 2008, his team was basically average. Only once in his four years — 2007, 72 possessions, 24th nationally — could you describe his tempo as “fast.” Yes, he prefers a faster pace than the Bennetts, but who doesn’t?
Let’s also not pretend that the Bennetts are the only guys who have ever won in Pullman. Both George Raveling and Kelvin Sampson took the Cougs to the NCAA Tournament in the last 30 years, too. Sampson teams typically play at a slower tempo (although not Bennett slow) but Raveling most certainly did not.
But I think you’re onto something with the identity thing. The Bennett’s gave us a uniquely Coug way of playing basketball in the Pac-10 that we embraced wholeheartedly, the same way the Beavers are hanging their hats on Robinson’s Princeton offense. Will Bone be able to establish his own identity?
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 19, 2009 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
Will Bone be able to establish his own identity? That is the question you presented. The answer lies within his ability to recruit towards his system. Can he lure kids to Pullman that run an uptempo system? Bennett didn’t necessarily have to battle Gonzaga and Washington in terms of recruiting. Romar wants NBA style kids that are fit for a track meet. Few was sort of following the ways of Ucla and Arizona- they wanted the “complete” basketball players, who were efficient enough to play both half court offense and uptempo offenses. Although the Bennetts probably wouldn’t have minded to have a few of Romar’s kids, most often he found kids to run his system from all points of the globe. Where am I going with this?
It seems as if Bone is going to be competing more with Washington, Gonzaga, and Oregon for the most talented basketball prospects, something the Bennetts didn’t necessarily have to do. Can Bone and WSU compete for the most talented prospects over Washington, Gonzaga, and Oregon? All the answers lie within the answer to that question. I’m thinking no … but that is coming from a biased Husky fan. Oregon is going to have something to say about it, given the fact that they are ready to open the doors to their brand new basketball arena this year, which will indeed attract some prospects.
Good luck to the Cougs, wish you all the best of luck- that is until we play you.
Go Dawgs! WOOF!!!
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 19, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now that I've read all the posts....
I guess I was offended by the general assumption that we could be headed back to obscurity.
My perspective and background was formulated in the 60’s and 70’s. Bone is an extension of Marv Harshman’s basketball knowledge and philosophy with a whole lot of evolving added to it. Good coaching is good coaching, no matter when it’s applied. Coach Bone’s bloodlines are such that I barely consider the possibility that we could regress. For the first time he will be given the resources to be whatever he can be.
Dick Bennett built our program back to prominence by recruiting good athletes that played defense or they transfered. I look at the snail’s pace we played offense under him as more of a by-product of selling out on the defensive end. Even though he is a tremendous coach also, Tony stifled the offensive development and creativity of many of our players. Not saying that is bad, but I wouldn’t exactly put him in the genius category.
Sure, you’re going to see more ‘tempo’ from the Cougs, but to think we are possibly headed back to obscurity is difficult for me to even consider, hence my knee-jerk response to your post.
I don’t know Bone all that well and am going by what I read and hear about him from people I trust and respect. Here’s what I know. He’s a well-respected coach and top-notch recruiter. He has assembled a very solid staff of assistant coaches with very impressive resumes. The core players on the roster are solid players, maybe not All-Americans yet, but very solid. The incoming recruiting class is one of the best, if not the best, ever to come to Pullman. Dick Bennett sure knew how to recruit the right kids and I give kudos to Tony as well in that area. There was more to it than just Weaver, Low and Cowgill.
Notice that I haven’t talked at all about tempo because to me, I can’t picture a coach teaching tempo. Tempo is a by-product of style and from what little I know about style, the Cougs did not crash the boards, got back on D, and forced everyone to run their half-court offense. We minimized possessions per game, but we hardly were ineffective on offense.
I don’t know about the pack D either, other than it sounds like you sacrifice threes more readily than you would a layin and hold teams to one shot whenever possible. I hated it when teams shot lights out from three because they had guards that could penetrate. Honestly, I don’t care what D we use as long as Bone will allow the kids to be a little more creative on the offensive end.
This is where I have to have faith in what he wants to do. I don’t expect him to be a Bennett nor do I want him to. I just want him to be Coach Bone and that will work just fine for me.
by SW WA Coug on Jun 19, 2009 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's where we differ in opinion
I believe it is important to teach tempo. You have to at this particular level. If you don’t have the athletes to compete with the Uclas, Kentuckys, Dukies, and Carolinas- then you have to create a matchup problem. When your athletes are not as gifted as the other guys, then surely you have to create a neutralizer and you can do that with tempo. I believe this is where your ex coaches (before the Bennetts) failed to recognize.
I honestly think Bone has a legit chance to be successful. As you stated the core of players on your roster are good. Thompson very well could be an all-american by the time it is all said and done. Casto could become a legit force in the league if someone can teach him to be an offensive threat in the low post.
I think everything, the future of WSU basketball is squarely on the shoulders of Bone, Thompson, and Casto. If Bone can do something special with this group, it will keep WSU in the NW spotlight on the hardwood. But if Bone’s system fails w/ Thompson and Casto? I’m quite certain you guys don’t even want to think about the implications.
But I am dying to find out whether it was the style of basketball under the Bennetts or if it was like you said. We’ll see how it all plays out after football season. On a different note- what do you guys think of our football recruiting efforts so far? Getting Nick Montana was HUGE!
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 19, 2009 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what both of you are saying....
If you work the shot clock on offense, aren’t crashing the offensive boards and getting back on D, plus teaching a switching, stifling man defense, isn’t that teaching skills which would slow the tempo of the game? That’s the stragegy I thought I saw with Dick and Tony Bennett. Maybe I am agreeing with both of you and don’t even know it.
Coach Bone is going to mix it up on D, probably teach a little different style of man (don’t know) and mix in a zone at times. He also wants to push it on offense a bit. By teaching his style, that will automatically up the tempo.
I’m not quite ready to admit that some of our key players, at this particular moment, aren’t on a par with the rest of the league. But for the most part that is true over the years, for sure.
by SW WA Coug on Jun 19, 2009 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, I will point out there were only two unsuccessful coaches before Dick Bennett
Kelvin Sampson was successful. And so was George Raveling a decade before him. Each took teams to the tournament, but left before building a foundation that could stand for a long time. That’s where this is different than before.
by Jeff Nusser on Jun 20, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that you really understand what's going on with game tempo
Slowing the game way down is an effective strategy for teams with inferior players for two reasons.
1. Reducing the number of possessions means that the outcome of each possession is more important. Since a large part of the outcome of any one given possession is luck, this increases the variance of the game and makes an upset more likely.
2. It reduces the amount of energy expended in a given game, which allows teams with inferior athletes or a lack of depth to avoid “running out of gas” at the end.
These are attributes that you either want or don’t want (and sometimes you might want one but not the other, in which case you need to figure out whether a slow-down style is an overall positive or negative). You can be pretty sure that Dick Bennett knew exactly what they entailed, though.
When you’re deficient in athleticism, slowdown ball is IMO simply the way to go. A few coaches have been successful with the opposite strategy (the human-wave tactics of UAB’s teams of recent vintage), but I think there’s just less room for that because there are fewer players who fit the job description (there are fewer athletic guys who can’t shoot than shooters with no athleticism— remember that the athletic guys who CAN shoot are going to powerhouse schools).
Linda's in the cold ground, won't see her anymore
Somewhere out on the highway tonight, the drunken engines roar
It's just one of those things, one of those things
-- Al Stewart, "Accident on 3rd St."
In memory of Nick Adenhart and all victims of drunk driving
by PaulThomas on Jun 19, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Paul, I think we agree
You forgot the No.3 reason:
Kids from uptempo programs are not accustomed to playing at a snail’s pace. Therefore it allows confusion to creep onto the floor for the uptempo opponent and when that happens you see a higher level of turnovers, sloppy inconsistent play, and a team shooting the ball at a lower FG percentage.
Before my Dawgs were able to figure out how to defeat Bennett slow ball, we were totally lost in how to beat you guys and I am quite certain other Pac 10ers felt the very same way.
I’m not a big fan of snail ball- but it is effective and it was a great neutralizer for the Cougs. Am I sorry to see it go? Without a doubt infatically YES! We went thru a 5 or 6 game stretch of losing to you guys and that hurt.
All I saw was purple
by crazidawg on Jun 19, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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