Arizona State 71, Washington State 46
by Grady Clapp on Jan 10, 2010 5:45 PM PST
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Cougars vs Sun Devils SBN Recap
Chalk this one up as a learning experience.
It's hard to find the words to describe this game, even hours after it ended. This was a game defined early by Ken Bone's benching of Marcus Capers and DeAngelo Casto, and defined late by the Cougars falling apart against Arizona State's stout defense.
I didn't realize the last time we had an odd starting lineup (first game of the Great Alaska Shootout) was also due to disciplinary reasons. So this is far from unprecedented. However, this time it was much more damaging, as the Cougars weren't playing Alaska-Anchorage, and the moves led Ken Bone to gradually empty his bench throughout the game.
Oddly enough the Cougars jumped out to a hot start - a 7-1 run - but between a bad stretch of possessions (five missed shots, four turnovers - hat tip to Grippi for that stat) - and Klay Thompson's second foul, the Cougs surrendered a 16-0 run before making the game halfway respectable prior to halftime. If only the clear goaltend by Ty Abbott had been called when the Cougars were down 31-25, the game might have had more life in the second half. It wasn't, and it didn't.
I understand the decision to bench the players - Capers and Watson were late for the morning walk-through, and Casto was late for the bus to the area. What I don't understand were the odd rotations throughout the game, and Bone's decision to give key minutes to players whom we haven't seen in months (or at least we haven't seen in meaningful situations, anyway). Our usual starters did play the majority of the minutes, but just look at the distribution:
Moore - 32
Klay - 30
Capers - 28
Koprivica - 25
Thames - 24
Casto - 23
Then it gets wild....
Harthun - 9
Bjornstad - 7
Watson - 6
Enquist - 4
Lodwick - 4
Motum - 4
Allen - 4
In fact, every Cougar on scholarship played except for Anthony Brown (which makes the decision to burn his redshirt even more perplexing than it already was). No role player got in rhythm, and no role player made an impact. The Cougs performed surprisingly well in the first four minutes with Lodwick (not so surprising) and Enquist (pleasantly surprising - including winning the opening tip). They never played again. In that case, why not just start Koprivica (who has earned a start or two with his play this year)? Why not start Bjornstad if he was the guy Bone wanted to play at the five for the majority of the first half? It makes my head spin.
Bone threw everyone and the kitchen sink at ASU, at it never worked, and rarely were all five of our regulars out on the floor at the same time.
Having said that, everyone - late or not - had a fair shot at playing time in the second half and the Cougs still fell apart. It was surprisingly reminiscent of what WSU used to do to opponents in the Bennett era. It's not a fluke when your team shoots this poorly against a team that has defended well all season. This was ASU putting on a defensive clinic against one of the better offenses in college basketball. The Cougs' eFG% was a horrific 31.6. They got dismantled by a team that values preventing transition buckets, and takes jump shots over free throws. Sound familiar? It's the formula the Cougars had used for years to dismantle teams. This was eerily similar to our first blowout win over the Huskies (only the Huskies actually played their first string most of the game).
This was a tough way for the Cougars to learn an important lesson. The lesson being that a team can't just float through the Pac-10 season. We had a big win on Friday night. Great. Problem is there are still 14 more conference games to go, and our margin for error already got cut thanks to one of the all-time worst calls in WSU history (think about it - we could be 3-1 right now instead of 2-2). This team has bounced back every time they've been hit hard. Whether it was the rough Gonzaga/K-State stretch or the Oregon game, WSU has responded to every challenge thrown at them this season. Problem is, when you're a young team, eventually your deficiencies will catch up to you. The Cougars have to work twice as hard to make sure that doesn't happen.
If you're looking for a pick-me-up, there's this: the Arizona team we just beat ran over the Huskies by 17 today. In the big picture, the Cougs are doing just fine. But it's up to them to make sure today was just a bump in the road, and not the start of a trend.
Player of the Game: Marcus Capers. Holy cow, there's horrible shooting up and down the box score. Klay 3 for 11. Reggie 2 for 10. X went 2 for 8. Capers was at least slightly decent, going 3 for 9 with 8 points, 3 offensive boards and a block.
Unsung Hero: John Allen. Allen was the only person with 2 or more shot attempts to make over 50% of them. He was 2 for 2. Allen, a walk-on, has done an exceptionally good job of earning minutes this season, even though he lacks height and plays on a guard-heavy team. I'm not saying he's going to be superstar in a couple years, but I do think it speaks a lot to his character that he plays some solid, occasional minutes for this team. And often he plays better out there than some of the guys on scholarship.
Play of the Game: I forget when or how it happened, but Marcus Capers threw down a pretty sick dunk in this game off a miss by DeAngelo Casto. I helped alleviate the pain of the Sun Devils' first half run.
It was over when... Klay Thompson turned the ball over to former Cougar recruit Ty Abbott, whose lay-in made it 41-27 with just over 16 minutes to play. The Cougs never really showed signs of life after that.
Stat of the Game: 13 players played four or more minutes.
Oh, and Go Beavers tonight.
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Good Sport All Ways
While I was disappointed with the course of the game today, I was also disappointed with the evolution of the dialogue in our forum. The comments regarding the ASU coeds and the attractiveness of their cheerleaders are not honoring the community guidelines that encourage smart and thoughtful analysis and an attempt at enhancing the conversation. I also felt that some of the comments regarding our own players hinted at being personally derogatory. Specifically, comments towards Enquist, Bjornstad, Harthun and Motum seemed inappropriate.
Over the years, I have personally known student athletes. They work hard. We are not all the best at what we do, but someone who knows more than I do about recruiting has deemed these young people as worthy of D-1 athletics. Let’s respect them. These are our people. They are a part of Coug Nation.
I read Coug Center daily (almost) and comment occasionally. I appreciate the integrity, knowledge and enthusiasm that Grady and Nuss have laid as a foundation for Coug Center. Thank you for your efforts to host such a viable forum for all us. I was not surprised when Coach Bone referenced Nuss’s article on the Pac Ten officiating during the Oregon game. This is a respectable site that fans turn to for the latest information on Cougar athletics.
As a Coug fan who lives in a state that hosts two other Pac Ten teams, I welcome the comradery this forum allows. I proudly don my Coug gear whether we are winning or losing, not to provoke, but to represent Coug Nation. Let’s continue to proceed with some class.
by PDXCoug on Jan 10, 2010 5:59 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
It's a fine line between constructive criticism and player bashing
It’s also tough in a game as crazy as this to keep our cool.
My reminder to the community: don’t just say so-and-so sucks. You can say “Charlie Enquist isn’t a good rebounder” or “I’d rather so Abe Lodwick than Koprivica in this set because _”.
It’s easy to player-bash sometimes because we get frustrated too. But remember these are 18-23 year old kids, not professional athletes getting paid $10 million a year to pitch terribly (Silva!). We just have to remember we support our team first. Our entire team. Really the only things fair game for bashing are lack of effort and off-the-court stupidity. But even then we have to be careful – we don’t know the exact circumstances.
We all have to try to keep our community standards high, myself and Jeff and Craig included. Banninations will ensue if people start to get too harsh.
Having said that I think we do already hold ourselves to a higher standard than many blogs
And for that, I salute our members of CougCenter.
I feel like game threads are their own beast
Game threads on SBN as a whole are spur of the moment, in the heat of things kind of deals. It’s commenting along real time and is a fun aspect of commenting. It’s a place to vent frustration and make witty observations. It can also provide insight into the numbers, what’s being run, and who is and isn’t playing well.
I don’t think anyone here doesn’t like Motum, Enquist, Harthun, and the likes, but in the heat of battle people may say they’re bad. It’s the nature of a game thread. There’s a ton of in depth information in them, but for the most part they are emotional threads, especially when your team is getting throttled. It’s kind of fun to watch the emotionally rollercoaster that follows the peaks and valleys of the game.
That said, it’s OK within reason, and we’re all guilty of flying off the handle at one point of another. I think the comments on posts that aren’t game threads are insightful and thought provoking. I read LL, which has some of the best writers on SBN, and when you join they specifically point out that game threads are what they are. I wouldn’t want them to be completely censored, but we should all stay within reason in them. With a game as frustrating as today, we all got riled up but I think the comments never went too far over the top and when it was headed in that direction everyone settled down.
by Brian Floyd on Jan 11, 2010 12:25 AM PST up reply actions
I sometimes read them without even bothering to follow the game.
CougCenter WSU's second main blog
by Craig Powers on Jan 11, 2010 3:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You don't need to follow the game reading them
The emotion that comes out will tell you all you need to know. A simple F-bomb in all caps lets you know a bad thing happened. A string of F-bombs in all caps by 50 people at the same time means Felix is injured. Going back, without seeing the game, and reading a game thread will tell you about all the ebbs and flows of the game. Mix that in with quick one liners by Jeff and you’ve got some entertaining results.
I agree with you Cougfan, game theads are different
Especially in a game as yesterday. I do not want anyone to ever feel uncomfortable, but what is fine for one person might be uncomfortable for another. Then what is fine for that person might be uncomfortable for another. That could be a never-ending censoring attitude. Where does it end? When there are threads that don’t interest me I don’t read it. It is the same thing I do when there is a program on television that doesn’t interest me, I don’t watch that program.
Regarding the cheerleader thread within the game thread, there were 9 posts in a 609 post thread. If the entire thread from that point on would have only talked about the cheerleaders, then I could see the point. But, the subject was over very quickly. Also, when I was in school, I was friends with several cheerleaders. Cheerleading IS a a BIG part of the college game experience. It is fair to comment on them. If it weren’t, schools would not have them in the first place.
In the end, there was no profanity on the thread. There was no real personal arguing on the thread, There really was nothing posted that was too bad and most close to the edge can be explained because we are all emotional people and say things in the heat of the moment. Thank you for letting me post my thoughts.
I think Grady said it perfectly
They are what they are. As long as people exercise some reasonable self control and stay away from insults — I always tell my students to attack issues, not people — then I think we’ll be fine.
I was probably as guilty as anyone of it yesterday, just in the opposite direction. I kept telling people to calm down and relax, and even though that’s how I really felt, there’s also a cathartic element to game threads. If you want to have a meltdown and question everything, by all means, do it on the game thread. Just calm down by the time you come back to the other posts.
I agree that he said it well
There is no place for personal attacks or insults. I try never to criticize any player, but I think it is fair game to analyze a player in which the analysis might not be favorable.
Many people think analysis is attacking a player or coach. It is not; there is a difference. The difference being in analyzing you back up what you said with competent reasons, in criticizing you do not.
I'm actually surprised he didn't leave at semester
It seems relatively clear he isn’t really a part of the plans, and we are all assuming he will transfer. If he left now, he could potentially be eligible (if the school didn’t want to redshirt him) as early as this time next year. If nothing else, it would give him a jump start at another place.
But maybe I’m overthinking it, and Brown is still working out if he fits into the plans here or what options exist.
Burning the redshirt was probably a mutual decision
And to that effect he must’ve known it wasn’t going to work. To go from burning the redshirt to not even being on the travel squad, while Allen the walk-on is, leads most of us to think the inevitable.
I was surprised he didn’t go at midseason, as well. I’m not sure what to think of him because I really liked him when he came in.
Well, you might want to look at the Witherill situation for a clue
I kind of torched Tony for that decision last year, saying it was unfair to Nick. But then I got an e-mail from someone around the program who said I shouldn’t be so hard on Tony — Nick was grateful for the opportunity to get to play for a Pac-10 team, if only for a few brief moments.
Perhaps that’s what’s going on here. Whatever it is, it’s all pure speculation on our part.
Really? He's not even traveling and he is on schollie and
JA isn’t.
Something is weird and should be investigated by our crackerjack newsbeat crew, which essentially consists of Grippi.
I was hoping that Brown would be cut out in the Capers mold, but with a bit more polish on the offensive end. If he he getting sent packing we better be bringing in some bigger guy down low.
by ptowncoug3012 on Jan 10, 2010 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
If nothing else we know whos taking the schollie
Wed be replacing brown with aden if brown is out after the season. It makes a lot of sense if that is the case as Aden is an instant upgrade at that position. We go from brown to a polished JC AA putting up 25 a game.
That doesn’t mean we won’t bring in a big man at some point either. I think if he finds a big, which isn’t easy, Charlie goes back off scholarship to make room. Its all speculation at this point but we know were one over and the easy guess is to say Brown is the attrition that solves that problem
by Brian Floyd on Jan 11, 2010 12:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The writing is on the wall since
a walk on (Allen) is traveling with the team for road games and a scholarship player is not.
That would make sense
I’m sure that a guy like Nick, and maybe Brown, would say if asked that they are grateful to have been on the court in Pac 10 games for a Pac 10 team. If they hold no resentment, neither should we. They get to tell their kids they played for a major conference team, even if briefly, before transferring for more time if they do. And that is more then I know I can say.
Remember too he gets to go to a good school for free for a year
That’s not bad. My wife and I only have about a bazillion dollars in student loans to pay off because we didn’t have that option.
Again, I didn't watch the first half, but it is difficult a ton
of credit to ASU’s defense. I mean I watched our guys miss incredibly easy 2 footers for the 1st 10 minutes of the 2nd half. Funny thing was that as I tuned to halftime, Bud would read off a players stats and say for almost each of them that they inexplicably missed an easy 2 footer.
I liked how we attacked the zone in the 2nd half. It was incredibly soft letting us get deep in the lane with relative ease.
This was just a piss poor effort, nothing more, nothing less. Hey if you have guys who are showing up late for practice for this game at an away game!!! then you know they seemed satisfied with Thursday night’s performance and didn’t care about the rest of the weekend.
OSU/UO
Still early but so far OSU is getting it done.
UO isn't helping themselves
We’ll see if OSU can keep the pressure on for a full game. But this is not the team that got taken down by SU.
If OSU wins
There will be half a game separating EIGHT TEAMS, and one and half games separating ALL 10 TEAMS.
Let that sink in for a second.
Upcoming games
Makes this week all the more important to make a statement.
I keep saying
10 teams, 10 9-9 conference records. Try and figure out the seeding for the Pac 10 tourney when that happens.
there's one easy part to this
USC won’t be in it! 9 teams!
House Of Sparky: An Arizona State Sun Devils blog
by Cory Williams on Jan 10, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
This is almost the worst possible collection of results for the conference, if Oregon loses tonight
I suppose it can’t be the worst, since USC lost. But other than that…
The next Lunardi bracket is going to be telling. I’m not actually certain there will be any Pac-10 team in it other than whoever qualifies as the leader at the time.
This is literally a mid-major conference right now. In terms of play style, in terms of talent level, and in terms of how many teams are going to get into the NCAA tournament. It’s the Atlantic-10 West.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
We're still better than the WCC
But at this point we’re a 2 bid conference. 3 if we get really lucky, 4 if that many teams can emerge from the pack. Which isn’t going to happen.
Unless Arizona or UCLA breaks into the Top 3
Then they’re automatically in, because you don’t mess around with old money
I might take the Mountain West in a 10-game challenge series...
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Actually they're in dead last place
They’re in serious Tom Petty mode right now, ’tis true.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Nailed it
Washington dropped all the way into the “Next Four Out” category. Oregon and Stanford were not added as putative Pac-10 champions, or as at-larges (no surprises there). Cal is, I guess, the projected titlewinner, and at a 9 seed they still have a bit of breathing room. But they are the only team currently in the field of 65.
Looking through the team pages at KenPom, this isn’t surprising. You want to see a bunch of bright green (and relatively little red, but seeing a lot of green is the most important thing as the committee prefers good wins and bad losses to bad wins and good losses). There is almost no bright green on any Pac-10 team’s page other than USC, which is of course ineligible.
Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."
Oregon is going to complain about foul disparity again
But they do not draw contact, or when they do they exagerate it. They are just not good at getting fouled.
Stop trying to make sense of the Pac 10
Because if it isn’t supposed to happen, it will.
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