WSU-OSU RECAP: Taking The Bad With The Good
by Brian Floyd on Nov 14, 2010 5:46 PM PST
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PrintYesterday was a great, dominating win for a Washington State team that desperately needed it. The win wasn't perfect, however, and many of the same mistakes we've seen over the course of the season continued to rear their ugly heads against the Beavers. Penalties that killed drives for the offense and a handful of mental mistakes have been a recurring theme this season. It's enough to drive a man insane.
Many of us watched the game waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's not just the mentality of being a Coug, but what we've been conditioned to do watching this team all year. Sequences usually involve a big play, followed by a bigger penalty that knocks the Cougs out of field goal range. Again, it happened a handful of times yesterday.
The penalties started from the get-go. On the first play from scrimmage, WSU stopped Jacquizz Rogers after a one-yard gain. C.J. Mizell decided to ride him a good five steps out of bounds on the play, throwing him to the ground and drawing a personal foul. We can debate the merits of his actions -- and we will later -- but it was a penalty that shouldn't have happened.
WSU dodged a bullet and forced a punt. Within field goal range, Isiah Barton gets caught up in a scrum, shoving an Oregon State player late and getting flagged for a personal foul. Two bone-headed penalties in a few short minutes that could've been prevented.
The third quarter saw the same mistakes continue. From the Oregon State 23, a holding penalty on a Skylar Stormo seal block -- and a blatant one at that -- backed WSU up another 10 yards and out of field goal range. Luckily it was all moot, as Jeff Tuel hit Marquess Wilson for 33 yards and a score on the next play.
Next possession, after a beautiful onside kick, Jared Karstetter gets flagged for moving early on the second play, right after James Montgomery broke off a 24 yard run. Two plays later, again in field goal range, John Fullington gets flagged for illegal hands to the face, backing the Cougs up 15 yards. On the next play, Tuel is sacked and fumbles the ball. Oregon State scores for the first time.
On the last possession of the third quarter, another hold on a Stormo seal block. Again, it was deep in Oregon State territory. Again, Jeff Tuel bailed out the offense, leading to a field goal. And, of course, we can add in the Daniel Blackledge drop that would've immediately sealed the game in the fourth quarter, leading to a few more heart stopping minutes.
In all, WSU was flagged nine times for 99 yards. It's becoming a trend for this team. The timing of the penalties, at the most inopportune moments in games, is as big of an issue as the volume. They're killing sustainable drives.
I point these out not to rain on the parade, but because it's an increasingly frustrating problem. Every time something good happens, it's almost like the team gets excited and just lapses mentally. When it continues to happen, perhaps costing the Cougs the game last week against Cal, it's a problem. They simply have to be better in this area going forward.
Edit: Forgot the moment that frustrated me enough that I had to walk away for a minute. Cougs force a fourth and long in the first half, but run into the punter then fumbled the punt, giving the ball back. There's no reason to get after the punter like that when poised to secure great field position. The fumble was a huge missed opportunity on top of that all. It was one play that was wrong in so many ways.
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Seriously
we can’t wait a couple days before we go negative. I’d like to enjoy this for a bit. Please. Thank you. It has been a few years since we beat a Pac 10 team on the road.
by Cougars Hunt and Kill on Nov 14, 2010 6:11 PM PST reply actions
The title was fair warning.
We are just trying to be objective. You are still allowed to enjoy the win.
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by Craig Powers on Nov 14, 2010 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
I don't plan on changing my approach.
Looking at the last sevenish posts, it’s been all positive. When we were getting our brains beat in, we looked at both the positive and negative sides. That won’t change. If we’re going to look at the game, we have look at every part of it, not just what makes us feel good.
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by Brian Floyd on Nov 14, 2010 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i think that's fair
i thought you guys went out of your way to find positives during some awful Saturdays. Its probably good you’re doing the same during a big win.
I was at the game.
I saw two good teams playing not perfect football. But WSU played perfect enough to win a lot of football games this year! I think the game ball should be split between Tuel and Chris Ball. The Cougs won this football game because of Jeff Tuels good decisions with the football and great defensive schemes that kept Katz and Rogers contained. Great pressure as well.
We can nitpick errors, and I get it, but I would have a hard time being convinced that we can’t win most of our games this year by playing like that! I did not mind the Mizell hit, it was a penalty for sure. But to me it showed that they came to play. They toned it down, but the fire was lit.
The penalty that I think they wish they could have back is the one on Karstetter that was unfortunate
You're probably right, and I'm not just trying to nitpick
Honestly, it’s just a personal pet peeve of mine. I hate the terrible penalties that throw the offense into reverse. It’s something I’ve seen plenty of times this year and it bothers me more and more as the season moves on.
They played at a very high level for four quarters against OSU. But what if they don’t, for whatever reason? Then those errors are magnified and you have a problem. We’ve seen it plenty of times this year — and Cal is the biggest example. The errors end up costing the Cougs in a close game.
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You're too kind.
There were about 1.5 teams playing not perfect football on Saturday. For anyone who has watched the Beavs for the past 20 years, Saturday was a freaking time warp straight back to the 80s.
That said, you’d have a hard time beating most teams on most weekends with those poorly timed penalties.
Oh, and the Mizell hit was trashy. Don’t stoop to condoning a hit out of bounds. Celebrate the win, but don’t celebrate or justify crap like that. You’re not a duck or a husky—be above that.
Mizell's hit
Sure it was not a wise move, but I do not feel that it needs to be condemned or condoned. It was a football player trying to tackle a small and very fast running back. Was it illegal, yes, hence the penalty, but trashy I deem it not. Foolish sure, but nothing more than that.
And you have to understand WSU has been young and timid all year. It has not been a problem of talent, they just have not come out firing. So yes I was ok with the penalty because it was a tone setter. He did not hit him in the head or twist a facemask or anything that horrible, he just didn’t let go of the little guy. He got fairly flagged, but the tone was set.
And I would disagree, that Coug team brought the energy on Saturday and we would have beaten some other teams if we played with that kind of spark.
But I respect your opinion.
I respect your opinion as well, but I think you’re splitting hairs and talking around the issue. The hit and Mizell’s reaction were really trashy. This is just an opinion, but if you watch it again it’d be hard for you to not see it as a pretty freaking trashy sequence of events.
Anyway, it doesn’t change the fact that the Beavs did not show up and failed to answer the call. Worst game I’ve been to at Reser since the late 80s. Enjoy the win, BEAT WASHINGTON and see you in hoops!
Maybe Quizz will learn to keep his mouth shut
It was a late hit, nothing more. If he tried to hurt him, it would be another story.
by B-Lot tailgater on Nov 15, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
LOL
Because that is exactly what Quizz was doing right?
Don’t talk smack if you can’t handle what comes from it.
by B-Lot tailgater on Nov 15, 2010 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t condone physical violence beyond the whistle or outside of the rules, period. Talk is one thing, committing a physical foul is another.
Take note of the other fans on this forum that actually get “it”…
Subthread closed.
No more.
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by Brian Floyd on Nov 15, 2010 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You know what else is closed?
Commenting on this whole post. Sorry guys, but this was ridiculous, and it’s clear nobody had anything of substance left to say.
Huh?
It’s ironic that an OSU fan is talking trash about … wait for it … a fictional NW trash talking championship. Where are these trash talking Husky fans? I am asking this in all seriousness, as it’s been alluded to before … do I read the wrong blogs? Maybe you’re referring to actual, in person bluster?
Still young
A lot of the players making mistakes won’t in a year or two when they are juniors. I guess a look at how a lot of the players bounced back such as Justin who muffed the punt. He came back and was solid for most of the day and then made a nice pick to snuff out an OSU drive.
As a team they just kept plugging away and didn’t seem to let anything bother them. That’s actually not acting like a young team and a great sign if they can keep it up.
They are still young
But I do expect improvement in some of these areas 11 games into the season, especially the terrible penalties.
However, you are right. They did continue to bounce back and keep their heads up, which is also a good sign. I just wish they wouldn’t keep kicking themselves in the nuts when it matters most. That is definitely a positive sign and made a difference against OSU.
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I don't think Mizell's hit was a mistake
Personal I was completely ok with Mizell man handling Quizz out of bounds. While handing them 15 yards isn’t always the best strategy I think that play was meant to send a message to both the WSU and OSU teams: we’re here to play.
“He just kept running, so I was going, too” Mizelle said. “I was just trying to set the tone for the defense.”
I think the celebrating and helemt slapping after the play showed that the Cougs approved and they continued to ride that momentum. Wulff seems to agree, when asked whether or not it fired up the team he said:
"I think it did. I wasn’t thinking it at the time, believe me. … I thought it was OK. Just let them play."
If we were any other team at any other point in the season I would completely agree with you. But lets face it, the Cougs have needed all the motivation they can get and at this point in the season I’m willing to overlook the yardage because to me the ends justify the means.
I'm working on a post around CJ and that hit, among other things.
There will be more on him sometime this week.
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What if Rodgers got seriously injured on that play?
Would you feel the same about it? I didn’t see the game and haven’t seen a replay of the hit, but from what I’ve read it sounds really stupid.
It was stupid
When it happened I yelled “CJ! Can’t be doing that”
All I was thinking about was the Seahawks game a few weeks ago when twice the defense forced a 4th down only to stay on the field by a stupid personal foul after the play…it’s all just stupid
by tclaus on Nov 14, 2010 6:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
No, I don't wish ill upon anyone
By watching the play you can tell there was very little chance of Quizz getting hurt. Essentially Mizell knocked him out of bounds and instead of letting up right away Mizell continued another 4-5 steps until they fell down. It was not a foul “I’m going to hurt you” play in anyway, and had it been I would not be standing up for him.
That's what I'm saying.
Look, I know the losing team always has it’s sour grapes, but I’m really surprised that you guys are cool with this. This play happened right in front of my section and it was something that doesn’t belong in football, plain and simple.
I don't think that anyone's "condoning" it
I don’t think it was any worse than the 15 yards the team was penalized. It wasn’t a late hit, he just rode Rogers to the ground longer. Nobody was in position to get hurt.
It sucks he did it, but it’s hardly a pox on the sanctity of sportsmanship. OSU got their free first down and everyone moved forward.
That's not the arguement though
The argument is whether or not is was a mistake and truly cost the team something. And the answer is no, not at all. I agree it was foul play and I’m glad he got flagged for it. But the fact of the matter is it did not hurt us as a team
Well, no, it didn't come back to bite you because we left our offense in the locker room.
I guess I’m just a little sensitive to play like this since it’s very close to the type of play where an Arizona player needlessly piggybacked James Rodgers into the turf, ending his season.
I understand what you’re saying, but I just feel that unsportsmanlike penalties are always regrettable and always are mistakes, hence the whole flag thing.
I think we can all agree on one thing
There are worst hit’s that happen every Saturday. Many go unflagged. This one drew the correct penalty, it was enforced and we move on.
As for your team leaving their offense in the locker room…I am not exactly sure what that means. I think you are taking too much away from a strong defensive effort, I was impressed at how fast they moved and how they dictated the battle up front.
What I mean is that this team has been sliding for the past two weeks.
Our offensive line and our defense have put two VERY terrible games together. Missed blocks, missed tackles and just plain passive. There has been an overall lack of energy and urgency against UCLA and WSU that is just killing this team.
It was really stupid and classless.
You can “set the tone” by physical play between whistles and in bounds. Someone posted elsewhere that if that had happened the fourth play, rather than the first, he probably would have been tossed from the game.
That sh*t is indefensible.
Absolutely indefensible.
by TiltingRight on Nov 14, 2010 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't believe he would have been ejected under other circumstances.
He ran a guy out of bounds until they fell. Yea, I agree, maybe not classy but not dangerous either. The flag he got was very well deserved, I’m not arguing that in anyway. But in mi opinion, and I’m not expecting everyone to agree with me, while it may not have been the smartest move I would not cal it a mistake either.
The bottom line is
We don’t want to be known as dirty. You can and should play hard and with emotion on the field, but when you intentionally ride a player 10 yards out of bounds to “set the tone” that is classless and stupid. It speaks of a team that is desperate and immature, neither of which we ever want to be.
To me the most egregious thing is that CPW doesn’t come down harder on Mizell. Sure, maybe in your heart you like it and don’t want to come down on him, but then the brain needs to step in and realize that was incredibly stupid. I’m a cougar obviously, but even as a fan I can’t look past that.
Mizell should have been ejected and probably deserves a game off considering all of the other maturity issues he’s had. Sure, we need the wins now, but I would rather have Mizell develop into the player he could be long term than go the rout of Andy Roof.
Any other game day, I think Wulff probably agrees with me, but I guess I’ll give him a pass for that awesome game.
by Ben Wentz on Nov 14, 2010 7:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
He certainly should not have been ejected or suspended.
The flag is justifiable certainly, but there have been many intentional late hits that don’t lead to that level of punishment.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
I agree 100% with kelly20210
In no way should he have been suspended or eject. As classless as it may have been it was in no way dangerous. He got the penalty he deserved for it (and I do believe he deserved it).
Had he done something dangerous I would be all over him too, but running a guy 10 yards out of bounds? In my opinion the hit of Tuel that took him out (helmet to helmet), while not intentional, was far more dangerous than what Mizell did.
An ejection or suspension is absolutley ridiculous
It absolutely was a penalty, and it’s not the type of play you want to see on every down, but given the circumstances, it really doesn’t bother me. Agree with it or not, he did set the tone and it probably had something to do with Quizz running his mouth the week prior.
This team is immature, look at how many freshman/sophomores we have starting on both sides of the ball, they’re going to make mistakes, and that’s ok as long as they learn from them, CJ included. If you don’t think the players, coaches, and most fans have been desperate for this type of win the past 3 years then I don’t know what to tell you. This was huge and CJ set the tone, it was a physical way of saying we came here to kick your a** and they continued to do so for the next 60 minutes
Suspension/Ejection is really unreasonable
Yes, in retrospect, I agree.
However, what I don’t like is how CPW didn’t really do anything about it, and every thing is just kind of hunky dory afterwards. I’m not claiming I know everything about cougar football, I don’t. Maybe Mizell is doing stadium laps for every yard he costs us in personal penalties, who knows. I certainly don’t claim to be a better coach than CPW either, and like I said, he gets a pass for doing something I’m pretty sure no one saw coming.
BUT what if that penalty opened the flood gates and led to a 20+ point loss? It’s not like we aren’t that fragile. And Quizz didn’t have a chance to get injured? you’re telling me that CJ knew exactly what was in front of him running full speed into the OSU sideline, and that an extra 200 plus pounds on Rodgers’ back might not make something inconsequential into something serious? What if the reverse happens, what if instead of just knocking OSU further into a funk, what if it fires them up and all the sudden they give a crap?
It was just plain out stupid, and although it doesn’t deserve a suspension or ejection at all, it deserves a hell of a lot more than “oh golly gee just let the kids play the game”.
It’s not like I don’t like Mizell, he is HUGE for this team, and he had some awesome plays in the game. Take, for example, when he pretty much went wwe on Rodgers and slammed him into the ground. That was AWESOME and it happened between the whistles and in bounds. There are plenty of ways to set the tone, the least of which is late hits.
i don't know if we can definitively say Paul Wulff was ok with it
For all we know, Mizell’s been running stairs since getting off the bus Saturday night.
By your theory...
And Quizz didn’t have a chance to get injured? you’re telling me that CJ knew exactly what was in front of him running full speed into the OSU sideline, and that an extra 200 plus pounds on Rodgers’ back might not make something inconsequential into something serious?
This means we should play physical at all, because hey, it could lead to injury. Every single play in football stands that risk. That risk was there when Mizell made initial contact with Quizz in bound, and on every other tackle after that point.
What if the reverse happens, what if instead of just knocking OSU further into a funk, what if it fires them up and all the sudden they give a crap?
I personally wouldn’t care if it had happened to us. I think the penalty was 100% deserved but I think you’re making it into something its not. If it had happened the other way around I would have called for a flag. The fact that people “give a crap” means Mizell got the effect he wanted
Those who continue to amplify this is just giving Mizell
more of what he wanted. You all just need to move on.
by well you win some and lose others on Nov 15, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
indeed
if someone had drug one of our players out of bounds after the play was over (which has happened several times this season), i’d take the 15 yard gift and move on. not still whine about it on Monday.
Look, I get what you're saying, but try this out...
After our defense forced a 3-and-out on the first possession, we shot ourselves in the foot on the next drive. Our promising running back dropped the ball (literally!) but fortunately recovered the fumble. Our mobile QB made the best of the situation, completing a long pass to put us just outside field goal range. Our offensive line crumbled the next play, resulting in a sack. To add insult to injury, after our receiver missed an easy catch on third down, we got a stupid 15 yard penalty to negate field position. We would end up with zero points that quarter after our next two series also resulted in a recovered fumble and untimely penalties to kill the drive. In the 2nd quarter, only leading by a field goal, we fumbled in our own territory and let the other team kick an equalizing FG. Then we remembered we’re the best team in the country and romped the rest of the way, eventually crushing the Huskies 53-16. But the next week we made too many mistakes and almost lost in an upset! Man we dodged a bullet there! Luckily our sloppy play didn’t kill us, but it could have.
I just don’t think in college you can expect any team to be flawless. We don’t have the talent to compensate for a ton of mistakes like Oregon, so the penalties are particularly galling. But even the best teams make mistakes like these.
I don't expect flawless at all, especially from this team.
I do expect improvement. On the mental side, that means cutting down on the mistakes, specifically the back-breaking penalties. If the staff continues to preach that like they have, I expect it to happen at some point. It hasn’t. And it’s frustrating.
How many times have you watched them shoot themselves in the foot over the course of the season? And has it improved? Because if we’re looking at improvement and whether the team is growing, this is one of the areas that stands out. The win is clearly a step, but to evaluate the progress, looking at some of the process is necessary, in my opinion.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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I agree with what you're saying
I’m arguing that penalties are not necessarily indicators of lack of improvement. I’m infinitely (well, not literally) more concerned with effort and execution than a couple personal fouls. The points you made about things like muffed punts and running into the kicker, well sure I’ll agree with you there. Even something like holding is a lack of execution, though we can debate whether Stormo should really be out there in the first place. But those penalties happen all the time, and I wouldn’t exactly expect them to decrease much over the course of the season.
I look at it as two competing factors. Effectiveness is a function of effort and execution (both good and bad) and is one way to describe coaching. If our effort increased (I think it did), and our execution overall increased (net yards gained on offense and allowed on defense more than made up for the penalties), especially when the result is a dominating win, I say our coach increased our team’s effectiveness. We all know penalties have no correlation to winning, though they absolutely correlate to fan stress! The timing of them is definitely annoying but I don’t see it as something the coach can control very much.
by johnnycougar on Nov 15, 2010 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
I'm not trying to excuse Barton
but he took a pretty good cheap shot from an OSU player prior to getting penalized. I can’t believe they didn’t get the OSU player for the late hit.
You know what they always say
The second guy is the one that gets caught.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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And I know he got hit first and there is a lot to that.
At the time, however, it was a pretty crippling penalty.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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I wish they would get better at catching the first guy.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
I'm surprised Pac-10 refs can catch anything.
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by Brian Floyd on Nov 14, 2010 8:02 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The second guy is always in a bad position.
You get shoved, and that action draws the refs eyes, but they didn’t see what happened. Then you shove the guy back while the refs are watching, and in comes the flag. If it wouldn’t lengthen the game more than it already is, I would lobby for making an unsportsmanlike conduct play reviewable. Make it so if there is some kind of physical thing, they can review to see if they just caught the second guy and if so, assess a personal on both and have them cancel.
by Fightfightfight on Nov 14, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Barton took a pretty big hit,
and retaliated with more of a bump than an actual shove. Not flag worthy in my opinion.
Freaky like my lady pyramid!
Good Win
Dispite the mistakes, this was a good win. The team did pull it togther and will hopefully do the same on 12/4. They played like a team tying to save the coach that brought them to WSU. Don’t think it will happen but give them credit for the effort. They really showed the “No Quit” attitude. We do have a great bunch of good kids. They will pull it together again.
I've been hunting all weekend, but still watched the game.
Unfortunately, I only had dial up internet there so I wasn’t able to post my postgame thoughts. They are as follows:
WOOO WOO WOOOOOOOO WOOoOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooOOoOoOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My dad, grandpa, and I were watching (all 3 of us Cougs) with a couple of beaver fans, and we were getting nervous there in the 2nd quarter because everything was going a little TOO well. It really sad when you are up 14 in the fourth quarter with about 7 minutes left and you are still insanely nervous about your chances to win.
Freaky like my lady pyramid!
The personal foul?
It was on Barton.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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There should be more to this. I do this a lot.
For moving early on that play I thought it was Marquess Wilson rather than Jared Karstetter. Freshman mistake?
Thinking of two different penalties
Wilson got flagged for one in the first quarter. Karstetter’s was right after the onside kick and Montgomery’s run.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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That was a lot of trouble for nothing.
But whenever a wide out jumps it makes my blood boil. Karstetter should know better, Marquess might have just been excited to get the ball on that crossing route he loves.
Exactly what I thought.
I hate seeing a wide receiver jump. They’re the last people in the world that should be called for a false start. Just look down the line and wait for the ball to move.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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On the bright side
Despite how many penalties we have we’re still in the middle of Pac 10! It’s not like we’re among the worst in the conference, which is decent considering we have so many 1st or 2nd year players on the field!
But agree we’ve got some brutal penalties which have come at inopportune times, but more so has been the TO’s. Today, we tried to give the ball away often, but the ball bounced in our direction. That was one of the bigger keys of the game.
Looking better, just tighten up
Like most of us, I’ve gone up and mostly down with the team this season. I think that Wulff probably deserves a chance to improve next year and we will see if his approach results in more disciplined players.
Certainly we have all seen Coug teams under more (in)famous former coaches win more games yet also exhibit serious lack of discipline. I hope that we can change that.
We seem to have a nucleus of really talented, sincere kids and Wulff has built an esprit de corps among them. But we can’t wait forever. I live in Greater LA and I can’t put up with much more stuff from the Bruin fans, let alone the SC guys!
Tip of my Coug hat
to Laurenzi who completely controlled “A” gap in his DT play. Wulff said last week ‘a light went on’ and Anthony has been playing head up football in the trenches and getting it done for the past two games. This is a crucial developmental aspect for the Cougs. Wolfgramm and Rankin played well- but I thought the ability to gap blitz and rotate Rankin outside and inside worked because Laurenzi was literally holding the line. Complete game by all, but I thought the D-line was, at last, dominant. It has been soooooo ling since we Coug fans could say that. Great win. Now heal and revel and then… get them dawgs.
If you can't Go Cougs... don't go.
by hollyweirdcoug on Nov 15, 2010 12:30 AM PST reply actions
Laurenzi has been playing VERY well
He and Wolfgramm have been really good in there for a couple of weeks now. If he and Pole can hold down the inside next year, moving Rankin back outside will be an option. However, I’m still not convinced this staff wants to do that. We’ll see.
Absolutely
I love what I’ve seen from Laurenzi recently. He’s been doing one hell of a job on the line and we can point to his play as one of the major differences in this team in the last few weeks.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
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