WSU-Kansas State Recap: Beneath The Frustration Is The Positives
by Brian Floyd on Dec 4, 2010 12:22 AM PST
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PrintHas everyone calmed down yet? Good. Time to drop the emotions and start looking at this in a level-headed way again. Yes, The Cougs lost in frustrating fashion to the No. 5 Kansas State Wildcats, 63-58. At the same time, there were plenty of positive signs to take from the game. This isn't the end of the world; it's merely the first loss of the season against a tough team that created a match-up problem.
Ready, set, notes.
- Marcus Capers did one hell of a job on Jacob Pullen. Until Pullen hit a three late in the second half, Capers and co. held the Kansas State star to just two points. Pullen finished the night with eight points on 2-11 shooting. Three of those eight points came on free throws in the waning moments. I would match Capers up on any opponent's best player and take Capers every single time. He's a lock-down defender, plain and simple. It's a mentality, and he has it.
- I don't understand the Klay Thompson hate tonight. Yes, he had six turnovers in the first half. Yes, he had a bad night from the floor and from the line. But he was also the only guy on the team getting to the line. Shot not falling? Thompson was putting his head down and getting to the bucket. Whether or not he finished, or hit his free throws, is not my concern right now. He looked dang good off the dribble. His shooting night was an anomaly.
- And welcome back Reggie Moore. I didn't know how Moore would respond and I legitimately feared that his season would end tonight if he came down wrong on his wrist. I was wrong. It took him a bit of time to settle in, but when he did it looked like the Reggie Moore of old. 10 points, many timely, three assists and three turnovers. And I honestly expected more turnovers from the kid playing with a heavily taped left wrist. Moore did was Moore does. Drive, create and find the open man. In the second half, Moore had a filthy right-to-left crossover, hitting the jumper after shaking his man. Shortly thereafter, Moore again went right-to-left, this time driving and dishing to Casto for the bucket. That is the point guard we know and love. He also finished 4-5, only missing a three. Yep, his shot's still good.
- I hear the frustration about the missed free throws. But Kansas State was also horrific from the line and WSU making theirs doesn't necessarily guarantee a win. It was simply a poor night from the floor and the line. It is what it is and there's nothing that bemoaning it will do.
- While Klay had a rough shooting night, but got to the line, Faisal Aden had a rough shooting night and didn't get to the line. The junior college transfer, on fire since the season began, was just 4-13 from the field and 0-2 from deep. He also did not attempt a free throw. Sure, he is human, after all. But don't panic about it yet. As I said earlier, there will be nights like this. I do wish, however, Aden would've shot less and created more. If his shot isn't falling and he can't get to the line, he absolutely has to set up his teammates. He didn't, finishing with no assists and two turnovers.
- KSU out-rebounded WSU 45-33. They also owned the offensive glass, pulling down 17 boards. Oh no! Panic! We're screwed! No. Kansas State is a very good offensive rebounding team. WSU hasn't been a very good defensive rebounding team. Put that together, and you get what we did tonight. It didn't help that the refs weren't bothering with over the back calls tonight.
- With 7:33 to go in the game, WSU held a foul differential edge of 19-11. The game finished at 20-18, though three were intentional fouls late in the game. The way the Cougs were playing -- attacking the rim and drawing contact -- WSU could have drawn 30 fouls on the night. The refs quit calling them, per Kansas State's game, and evened-up the foul differential to a nice and tidy two.
- Against a team that can play two big, strong post players, WSU might have some issues. Casto held his own, but the rotating cast of characters alongside him had trouble with KSU's athleticism. The good news? I don't think we'll see many more teams like Kansas State. But Brock Motum and Abe Lodwick did have some trouble on the defensive end.
- We got a pretty good picture of what Ken Bone's rotation will look like tonight. Again this year, it looks like the rotation may be small, with seven players using the bulk of the minutes against the Wildcats. The five starters, Reggie Moore and Brock Motum took nearly all the minutes, with Patrick Simon picking up eight minutes in spot relief. Keep in mind WSU had to go big, playing Motum and Casto beside each other, but I expect to see an eight-man rotation, with Simon's minutes going up.
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I agree completely.
We shot 3-16 from 3. Some were tough shots, but a lot were back iron misses.
I wouldn’t expect to beat a mid level WAC team shooting 3-16 from 3 and 13-23 from the line.
Thompson’s stroke was off but he played the best defensive game I can remember from him. I can’t say enough about Reggie Moore. He was making passes that no one else on this team can make. At least three times he set up teammates nicely only to see them not finish, including one where Casto either slipped or thought he was playing dodgeball.
Last season, after a performance like this, I would expect the team to spiral down. Time will tell, but with this team, I tend to think this performance will be an aberration and not a trend.
by Mark Sandritter on Dec 4, 2010 12:53 AM PST reply actions
Agreed
Capers was the main guy on Pullen, but Thompson was the other half of the tag-team. And they both did a heck of a job. From ball-denying to keeping him in front, those two did a great job on the defensive end.
And, unlike his freshman year, Thompson continues to get to the hoop, especially when his shot isn’t falling. He started it last year, but I saw something different against Kansas State. When he put his head down and decided it was time to go, nobody was stopping him. Whether he didn’t finish or not, it didn’t matter to me because those shots will fall.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
Which is a huge development.
The book on Klay up to this point was harass him, body him, be physical and he will get frustrated, force shots and sulk. He didn’t do that tonight and instead drove to the rim and played inspired defense.
Great to see and almost as big as getting Reggie back.
by Mark Sandritter on Dec 4, 2010 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think it is hate for Klay.
…just a desire to see him put up a big game against a rely good team. We still haven’t seen that signature game from him yet and I think people are anxious to. Knowing my luck, it’ll probably happen against UW.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
i had no problem with this game at all
shots aren’t going to fall sometimes. let’s go get gonzaga.
by BigWood! on Dec 4, 2010 1:06 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Capers
His offensive rebounding should get more love. Some of those put-backs were huge.
I don't hate many things, but i do hate Boise State.
by spokanistan22yuh on Dec 4, 2010 8:52 AM PST reply actions
The only problem I had
was that this team played, imo, uninspired until about half-way through the second half accompanying a spark by Reggie Moore. Sure am glad he is back….K-State had no answer for him.
That's probably fair
But as it was pointed out to me late last night, these guys haven’t played together at all this year. And it made sense to me. Many played together last year, but some of what you saw may have been shaking off the rust in the first half. The second half, on the other hand, was much better.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
I wouldn't say "uninspired," in my opinion.
I felt that there was good amount of passion in the first half from the Cougs. But they looked too tight, and nervous. As Brian said, some of that might be unfamiliarity, or first real test.
As I see it, this was not a loss due to a lack of effort, but execution and confidence. I appears that Reggie is the only player that exhibits that cold as ice, killer instinct. Or, at least he a was the only one that didn’t seemed phased by the level of his competition last night.
Bone should had Thompson posting up more during the game.
He posted up once about the 10 min mark in the 2nd half and hit a turn around over Pullen.
I am still trying to figure out what we are doing offensively. Isn’t pretty much one on one ball out there?
I'm having a hard time figuring their offensive system too.
I need to do some film work but I’m not seeing a lot of screening or off the ball movement. I don’t generally pic up a lot when I’m watching the game live because I am first and foremost a fan. But, even though we are happy to see Klay and Aden creating their own shots, Klay is still at his best when he comes off of screens to catch and shoot.
There was some of that last night, but not nearly enough in my opinion.
I am going to get ripped apart on here, but fine whatever......
I am still pissed. I am getting more mad reading this story and comments saying everything is fine and this team had a bad night. Sorry, this team has bad nights every time they play a better or tougher team. I am mad because this is a continuation from last season. Until I see this team and Klay put in a better effort against better teams and stop blowing out cupcakes like Sac State, them maybe I will be happy and feel better about this team. Until this I see this team as being, yet again, near the bottom of the Pac-10 standings, they still don’t have the mentality and toughness it will take to beat UW, Arizona, UCLA, USC and Arizona State and if you people think they do, then you are going to be mighty disappointed once the Pac-10 season starts.
Yes, there were some very good moments from last nights game and we almost beat the number 5 team in the country…..still I am not all happy and lovey dovey about this team like you guys are. I am pissed by the lack of effort and the horrible play this team put forth until about 10 minutes left in the game. And yes, I am sorry to say, I have no faith in Klay Thompson being able to lead this team to the NCAA. Until he can show me that he can put this team on him back like Weaver, Low or Taylor did, and step up in big games I wont believe him to be this all mighty top flight player to lead this team to the next step. So what if he would put his head down and get to the line, he still played hesitant and nervous for more than half the game and we need him to hit his jump shots against stronger and better players, not keep getting to the free throw line, he is a jump shooter and thats what we need him to be to succeed. He also had players guarding him that were a half foot shorter than him……he needs to learn to stop trying to go around them and just shot over them……he has the height and the stroke to be able to do that, he has not shown he can put the ball on the floor and go around quicker and better defenders still.
Sorry for not being all happy about this game like you guys are, I just see to many things that are continuing from last season. Yell and scream at me all you want, but this is what I saw last night when I took off my crimson colored glasses and saw things for how they really were.
A five point loss to any ranked team
is absolutely respectable. And mind you, this was a five point loss after the foul-fest that all close basketball games inevitably turn into.
Freaky like my lady pyramid!
How could you say lack of effort?
Poor execution? Yes. Lack of effort? Not a chance.
Kansas State is a damn good defensive team. Probably one of the best, if not the best, defensive teams we’ll see.
So what if he would put his head down and get to the line, he still played hesitant and nervous for more than half the game and we need him to hit his jump shots against stronger and better players, not keep getting to the free throw line, he is a jump shooter and thats what we need him to be to succeed. He also had players guarding him that were a half foot shorter than him
I could not disagree with this more. Do you really think his shot will fall all the time? And what should he do if it isn’t? Even the best shooters have off nights. And the great ones, when they are off, get to the hoop. If you want Klay Thompson to stand at the three point line and fire shots, fine. Be prepared to die with it.
The team doesn’t have toughness? You mean last night, when the game was on the verge of getting run, they didn’t have the mentality to fight back and throw punches? Because I saw a team that had the toughness to fight back and pull themselves right back into the game.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
Yes, I mean like of toughness
Like when they turn the ball over how many times? Tough, disciplined teams don’t do that. Lack of toughness when they failed to get how man rebounds when there was 3 Cougar players around and the one Kansas State player fights and gets the rebound. Yes, I mean lack of toughness.
I guess we have different definitions of toughness and mentality. Tough teams with great mentalities don’t have THAT many mistakes, no matter how the other team they are playing. Kansas State is a good team, but they didn’t cause the mistakes we made, they were stupid mistakes and lazy rebounding and lazy ball handling…..those to me are signs of a lack of toughness.
Again….maybe we have a different idea of toughness, but I failed to see to much last night. I am glad you saw some and hopefully this team has it….I don’t want my school to end up like last years team, but last night I just saw to much of the same.
The reason that it is hard to take you seriously
and that people “yell” at you for these comments are that you bring nothing concrete or objective to the table. You work only with these abstract notions of “toughness” and “mentalities.” You see Klay Thompson frown and think that is why he is missing. I see Klay Thompson missing and think that is why he is frowning. He is going to have bad shooting nights, and when he does he needs to do exactly what he did Friday night, which is create for his teamates, get to the rim and play intense defense. Klay is a 90%+ free throw shooter, his misses against KSU will not happen again.
by Fightfightfight on Dec 5, 2010 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
You say lazy rebounding
I say K-State has far superior athletes in the frontcourt that were allowed to exacerbate that advantage by climbing all over our backs. (At least, when we were even able to get a body on them, which we had a REALLY hard time doing when we were in zone.)
I like how people forget that Low had bad shooting nights.
I would like a specific example of “lack of effort.”
Give me one, I’ll review it on film. But I can honestly say that I felt like this team worked their ass off last night. The execution was total crap, but I don’t think effort was the issue last night.
And to follow up
I understand your frustration. I think some of your points are a little off the mark, but I definitely understand the skepticism, given Klay’s general no-shows against superior competition.
Why didn't we just go at Spradling? Reason for Klay hate...
When he was guarding Moore, Moore dominated him. Then he switched to Aden so we should have had Aden take over.
Klay may have been the only one getting to the line but what good is that when you miss 4/9 free throws?
KSU may not be ranked by the end of the year.
It's a Casio on a plastic beach
by Roy Weaver Stuckey on Dec 4, 2010 3:15 PM PST reply actions
Funny stuff.
KSU may not be ranked by the end of the year.
You haven’t watched the Cats play a whole lot, have you? And I still don’t understand all this bad mouthing of KSU. Wazzu played hard, tough D. They deserved to be in that game. But to make a comment like the one above makes WAZZU look bad, even moreso than KSU. After all, we’re 7-1, with our only loss to Dook, and wins over the Zags, VT, and you guys on the road. I’d put that resume up against anyone save the Dookies and UConn. So I’m truly mystified why so many of you guys want to claim KSU isn’t very good.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 4, 2010 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
They're good
But probably not fifth in the nation good. That’s all. You’re going to try and tell me this team is better than last year’s edition? Your offense misses Clemente A LOT.
This team is better than last year's team was on December 5, 2009. That much I know.
Frank’s teams always get better as the year goes along. As for Denis, I loved the guy, but he was a volume shooter, and turned the ball over quite a bit. If we can develop Spradling (#55) into our PG, I think we will be better than last year come Big 12 conference time. And even now, I don’t know who I’d rank above us that is currently behind us. I would’ve said UConn, but they’ve struggled some against lower-level competition, and their win over Kentucky doesn’t look nearly as good as it did when they won it. I’m not saying the Cats are DEFINITELY top 5 right now, but I’m just saying it’s not clear they definitely AREN’T top 5 either, and that we have a pretty good resume behind our 7-1 record, that’s all. And I’m also saying that I don’t understand why so many Cougs fans are bad-mouthing the Cats.
"Coaching a football team is the most engrossing thing in the world. It is playing chess with human pawns." --Walter Camp
by K. Scott Bailey on Dec 5, 2010 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
"I’m not saying the Cats are DEFINITELY top 5 right now, but I’m just saying it’s not clear they definitely AREN’T top 5 either"
I think this is an accurate statement. Just depends on what kind of measuring stick you want to use. My eyeballs tell me they don’t look like a top 5 team. For example, after watching Kentucky, Michigan State and UW all play in Hawaii, I think all three are better than KSU. But that’s just me. K-State is good, and just how good will shake out over time.
By the way I haven’t seen a bunch of bad-mouthing. Maybe it’s elsewhere, but here we’ve respected K-State as a very good team that we sure as hell would have liked to beat.
Klay
I was at the game. He took good shots and played very hard at both ends of the floor. He made some bad decisions passing in the first half, but I was impressed w/ his hustle and defensive intensity. He is a very good defensive player and left more skin on the floor than anyone other than Abe. He played hard buzzer to buzzer. His ability to take the ball to the hoop has improved dramatically and he is going to be hard to stop. Sometimes I wonder whether Coug fans really know what we have in Klay. I’m very glad he’s a Coug. I think all the players were a little tight and consequently shot the ball poorly. How many chippies did Casto miss? If were to criticize anyone, it would be DeAngelo. He rebounded poorly and at times lacked defensive intensity.
"Sometimes I wonder whether Coug fans really know what we have in Klay."
They’ll know when he leaves at the end of the year.
Oh, and I'm not sure I agree on Casto
Yes, he missed layups. But he played an excellent defensive game. K-State went at whomever Motum or Simon were guarding.
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