Nevada, Fresno State To The MWC; Idaho, WAC Are In Trouble
by Brian Floyd on Aug 18, 2010 8:07 PM PDT
in College Football
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PrintThe lower tier conferences decided to get all their fun out of the way in the last 12 hours, with the MWC and WAC duking it out for non-automatic qualifier supremacy. It looks like the MWC not only won, but may have struck a death blow to the WAC.
@TheMWC announced tonight that Fresno State & Nevada have accepted invitations to join the #MWC. @FSAthletics @NevadaWolfPack
Mountain West
TheMWC
The WAC just went from possibly raiding the MWC to be robbed blind by the MWC. A six team football conference would cripple the WAC and leave teams scrambling to fill schedules and meet minimum NCAA requirements. The WAC administrators have to be shell-shocked, especially considering that they just wrote a $5 million buyout into the conference bylaws.
That's not all for the WAC, however, as the news keeps getting worse by the minute.
Not only may they lose Nevada and Fresno State, but they may lose BYU in the process.
WCC Now In on BYU For Their Non-Football Sports http://sbnation.com/e/1394769
Jeremy Mauss
JeremySBN
A bidding war has erupted for the rest of the BYU programs and with the WAC losing two members, they aren't looking like a great landing spot.
It appears as though BYU wanted the $5 million buyout in the WAC bylaws to ensure a potential landing spot should the decision to go independent in football predictably backfire. Instead of resting on his laurels and watching his conference implode, MWC commissioner Craig Thompson went on the offensive, putting the WAC directly in his sights.
The MWC is ready to help with the buyouts of Nevada and Fresno State -- if there even is a buyout -- in order to ensure the survival of the conference. Surely this is a smart move, but the MWC isn't exactly rolling in money right now.
None of this means the MWC is in better shape than it was a few days ago. In losing BYU and Utah, the MWC likely also lost the automatic qualifier tag they were oh-so-close to picking up. Adding BSU helps, but Nevada and Fresno State do little to bolster the MWC's position in the AQ bid formula. Without a bid, the MWC seems destined to keep a middling TV contract and small streams of revenue comparatively.
For the WAC, and Idaho, this is terrible news. The Vandals were finally starting to make waves and now find themselves in a barren wasteland of a conference. It wasn't great to begin with, but now it's just a shell of its former self. Any additions the conference will make over the coming days likely won't be significant or increase the conference's prestige. For a program on the rise, Idaho has found itself in a terrible situation that I can't help but feel bad for.
In the end, nobody wins this round of conference realignment. Following in the steps of the Pac-10 and trying to dissolve competitors conferences hurts these mid-majors. Once on the doorstep of legitimacy, the MWC found itself scrambling to replace two cornerstone programs. The WAC lost it's best football program while serving as little more than a placeholder BYU before losing two more members and being crippled.
In a few years, BYU may come slinking back to the MWC but the damage has already been done.
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Try to pick off Sun Belt teams or other lower conferences
Standing pat really isn’t an option. With 6 teams they’d be dead in the water.
They don't have a lot of options
It’s not like those FCS teams can just hop up to FBS status easily. There are a lot of hoops to jump through, only to land in a conference that would now rival the sunbelt as the worst conference in the FBS.
by spencer peaty on Aug 18, 2010 8:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
MWC should just take over the entire WAC
Just add all the teams and go back to the 16 team conference they once were. They could say they are the first super conference and at least have that going for them.
The problem is that they're going for AQ status
And average BCS ranking of all members is part of the equation. Absorbing many of those teams would just drag them down.
by Jeff Nusser on Aug 18, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
not to mention
diluting the TV money, since the reset of the WAC wouldn’t be useful in generating more TV revenue.
WAC football is done.
Sadly the WAC was Boise St and then the rest. Once they jumped it was only a matter of time on who was going to pull the trigger next. The football part of the conference is over they might as well just abosorb into the Big Sky and go down to the FCS division. If I was Hawaii I would just go independent and let teams think that if you play them on the island it is like a bowl game.
By the way, I'm serious when I mean death blow
The WAC will cease to be a football conference with 6 members. They have to move — and have to move now — in order to be able to play football as a conference in 2011. The minimum threshold is 8 teams.
I can't believe I'm suggesting this, but
the WAC might as well jump on North Texas. You could probably get both of the Louisiana schools, and I don’t see why Troy wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to join a “better” conference.
I’ve heard UTEP floated around, but not sure they’d leave C-USA for the WAC. Although, speaking of C-USA, Houston would be a good get. I mean, it won’t happen, but hey, people can dream, right?
Yep.
North Texas, and then try to make Montana a deal they can’t refuse to get out of FBS. An 8 team conference would still be functional.
by Grady Clapp on Aug 19, 2010 12:03 AM PDT up reply actions
And really
is Montana any worse than Western Kentucky?
by Kyle Rancourt on Aug 19, 2010 2:53 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm actually of the opinion this could be good for Idaho
Shocking fact (h/t Stewart Mandel): they’d be the only WAC team left that was above .500 last year.
Idaho may be sad now, but they actually have a chance tp be the big fish in a small pond… for a change.
Anything the WAC can put together is going to be a mess
Look at all the ideas thrown around. You are looking at a conference that stretches from Hawaii to Louisiana as it is. Troy would stretch them to Alabama, then adding a Kentucky team further stretches the conference. I’m not so sure either of those teams would be interested in joining the WAC. Without Boise, Fresno and Nevada the WAC is not a better conference as suggested above. The WAC and Sunbelt are now essentially the dregs of Division 1 and moving from one conference to the other would seem to be a lateral move.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
If I'm Hawaii
I’m begging the MWC to let me in.
If I'm Hawaii
Sadly, they are too far away. Even they complain about the travel expenses and being in a conference on the main land. They could do well as an independent like Army or Navy, and find a lot of teams wanting to go to Hawaii for games as a treat for their teams and traveling fans.
If I was Benson, I would move quickly to add perhaps Montana, Portland State, and/or North Texas before the conference falls completely apart.
The WAC was good to BSU, so like most fans, I wish the conference well.
by bluesyourdaddy on Aug 19, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions
why do i feel like Hawaii could pull off being an independent better than BYU
every school in the country wants to play at Hawaii. They can get home/homes with EVERYONE….they wouldn’t have to waste 3 home games on San Jose St and Fresno….
yeah
They could selectively schedule their opponents. Lots of schools want to go there occasionally, nobody wants to go every year.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Maybe
But the travel is expensive. WSU just bought out of their game at Hawaii because it was cheaper to pay them 300K than it would be to travel there. I think they would do all right with early and late season games, but it would be tough to get teams to go in the middle of the season.
well, they have to play road games, too...
the rainbows could just stay on the mainland during october
I believe part of buying out of that game was
because the Cougs were also going to get throttled and fans didn’t express great interest in making the trip … oh and the hard economic times.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
WAC
Here’s an idea, though maybe not realistic, the WAC can just merge with the Big Sky and be a transitional conference. Maybe the Big Sky schools will make FBS status by 2012, I’m not sure of the time frame for that, but they have a couple of years to make it happen.
It typically takes years to do so
It’s really not as simple as it’s being made out to be. There’s a 2 year probationary period at the very least and some of these schools need to undertake stadium expansions and boost attendance significantly to get close to qualification.
Montana and Montana State would qualify
Portland State will have an acceptable stadium after the PGE Park remodel, but would need an attendance boost. Sac State would need an attendance boost.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions
MSU has a razor thin margin of error in attendance
And would have to add at least one athletic program, and maybe more if rodeo doesn’t count (I’m dead serious, they sponsor rodeo).
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions
And Montana would have to add 4 sports
These aren’t small undertakings.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Also recall
When Idaho qualified into FBS, Division One (whatever you want to call it) they played home games at Martin Stadium to meet the minimum attendance requirement. The Vandals were lucky enough to have a stadium that big (never thought I’d say that about Martin) nearby to help qualify upwards. Being able to draw an adequate number of fans would be an incredible undertaking for any school in the Big Sky.
by Michael The Coug on Aug 19, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Btw, terrible at think of my own wording apparently
Undertaking twice
by Michael The Coug on Aug 19, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Montana averages around 20,000 – 25,000 per game.
by John Berkowitz on Aug 20, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
It's not the attendance with them, their stadium/attendance is fine.
It’s having to bump up sports and scholarships to move up.
Since it's being asked, here's what I gather from NCAA bylaws
It takes 2 years from the year of application for a team to begin play in FBS. Since the deadline (June 1) already passed this year, the earliest any of these teams could start play is 2013.
Teams must average 15,000 in attendance in the stadium in which they play 50% of their games.
Sponsor a minimum 16 athletic programs, with at least 6 being all male or mixed. 8 sports should be varsity interscholastic sports.
Offer a minimum of 200 GAI scholarships to student athletes and cover 90% of football scholarships.
Yeah, I looked a little more into it too
Looks like the only one that really is close to qualifying is Sac State, though I don’t know their attendance records. They have enough seating capacity and sponsor enough sports. Montana is no closer than Eastern as far as sports go, they probably have the attendance down though. Portland State could get there if they added another men’s sports team, but with budgets being the way they are, I can’t see any of the schools adding non-revenue sports unless a small WAC tv deal would make up for it. Adding Sacramento and Portland to their area may help the WAC out I suppose. They could also make a push for UTEP and maybe North Texas. I read somewhere that Louisiana Tech and UTEP may switch places, but I think that was before the WAC lost members.
Could the WAC play the MWC's game
And try to grab a team like Wyoming from the MWC? I don’t know if Wyoming would want to take that step down but it would certainly put them in a conference they could be more competitive in. Maybe at that point, grabbing North Texas as suggested would be easier.
by Michael The Coug on Aug 19, 2010 10:38 AM PDT reply actions
no
Wyoming has no market. If they move down now, they’ll never get a chance to move up again.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't think anyone would leave the MWC now
Yesterday, the story would’ve been different, but at least the MWC is a viable conference. The WAC….not so much.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions
yep
The WAC is at best Sun Belt West—if they survive at all.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Honestly, I'm just grasping at straws
Because I’d love to see the WAC kept together. I got that “Idaho is my kid brother” mentality I’m sure a lot of Cougs got: want to protect them but also give them noogies
by Michael The Coug on Aug 19, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions
I feel bad for the schools left behind
especially Hawaii, who can do nothing about their location, and Idaho, who I’ve come to root for over the last year as they share my mutual hatred for Boise State.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
(Double)? Especially for the Bows
Where do they go if the WAC folds? They aren’t coming to the PAC, the Mountain West would’ve already invited them if they wanted them…..they can’t just play Chaminade in everything. Where would Hawai’i land if the WAC dissolves?
by Michael The Coug on Aug 19, 2010 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Then there's this
Karl Benson says he has spoken with Texas-San Antonio and Texas State
Karl Benson is the WAC commissioner.
Texas-San Antonio is starting an FBS program
its a natural choice
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions
Seems like it's at least viable
But holy crap would the WAC be a weird conference. Spanning from Idaho to Louisiana with a few Texas schools, Idaho, and others would just be weird.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Well...
I thought from a NCAA standpoint you only need 8 to be an auto qualify for the BBall tourney. Football financial viability should be strengthened temporarily by a 10 million windfall if that is true. That is a large amount of money for 6 teams to split. In BBall BYU would make 7 and if they snagged a couple of BBall powerhouses like Gonzaga and St Marys then they are actually stronger than they were. From a Football standpoint they would have to schedule a lot of road games vs very tough competition to earn the money necessary to survive. But to me that seems doable. Most big schools pay over 500k a game to play WAC schools. I am not sure if it is feasible, but I just would not be suprised if they survived
They cannot play with 6
The NCAA requires 8 teams to be a conference and without football, they’re dead. Basketball doesn’t bring hom the money.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
And it's no guarantee BYU will actually end up in the WAC right now
That’s a very fluid situation.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
BYU's staying in the Mountain West
Craig Thompson put them over his knee and busted out the paddle.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions
Boy was that a smart move
Gotta give him credit. His best defense was a terrific offense. I’m skeptical that he didn’t just hurt the conference in a bad way if there were buyouts and such, though.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
they have to renegotiate their TV deals
the Mtn. has been a disaster. They need to get some ESPN$
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
$1.5 million a school for a conference with such a good run lately is embarrassing
I still feel like they need that AQ tag to get big numbers.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah
the problem is markets. Boise, Laramie, Fresno…not going to reel in the big $
Even with the “big markets” they could claim—Dallas, Denver, San Diego—these schools are clearly second fiddle sports institutions.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions
I also feel like rapid expansion in the short term may burn them in the long run
It’s good in that it keeps the MWC alive. It’s bad in that if/when the big boys eat each other later, the MWC no longer has room to pick off the remaining teams.
If the WAC can hang on, they may be in OK shape in a few years.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions
the MWC had no choice though
BYU was the lynchpin. if they went to the WAC, the balance of power shifted.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
The current contracts run through 2016
Might be tough to renegotiate that one unless they get serious buyout money from ESPN
by johnnycougar on Aug 19, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions
So, this is turning into a hilarious adventure
WAC lawyers think an unsigned but oral agreement for $5M buyout penalty is enforceable. Any contract lawyers following this story?
WAC Accounts Payable has billed Nevada and Fresno State payable 60 days
So we’re good, right….
“There was a recording error, and Nevada did not sign the binding ($5 million) agreement.” Whoops.D’oh
From various reporters’ twitters.
And a few more from Benson's presser
Karl Benson admits the “inventory” of teams in the former WAC is what had the BYU folks excited. He sounds very discouraged about possiblity
With Nevada and Fresno gone, the other six schools can now depart without penalty. Interesting.
Karl Benson says he wishes he’d made the buyout $20 million
Benson “hopes” BYU is still alive as an option
Poor guy. Yesterday he’s moving his daughter into USC while this is going on. Today, it sounds like someone ran over his puppy.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
WAC will look at non-football members
say hello to the WAC Seattle U!
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
Which is good since the WCC wasn't going to let them in
I like it!
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
which is stupid
they really should be in the WCC
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree WCC is probably a better fit.
Gonzaga and St Marys seem to have outgrown the WCC
It is true, but there's at least one team that doesn't want them.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
And it's the only team that matters
You think Texas calling the shots in the Big 12 is bad. Check out Gonzaga.
what is the reason why this "one" team does not want Seattle U in the WCC?
by ximiankernel on Aug 19, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Im not gonna name names
But a coach who’s name rhymes with Bark You doesn’t want them. They don’t want the new kid that has the potential to build a pretty big time program.
Oh and that coach hates Cameron Dollar.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 2:09 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
basically, they're a bunch of wussies
who are afraid of a sleeping giant
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
This move was made purely to stay alive
The MWC I believe made a huge mistake in this, now they have to split the windfall 2 more ways. This goes back to the same argument for Pac-10 expansion, is the juice worth the squeeze? I would say that both of those schools will cost the other MWC members more than adding them will make. Throw on top of that 10 million in buyout that the commish said he will help both of the schools out with. This move was survival. He could have had both schools for $10 million less two months ago.
of course it was about survival
but if BYU goes ahead, Boise State bolts, and TCU goes back to CUSA, then SDSU and UNLV go back to the WAC……
Sometimes you just have to win the battle and worry about the war later. And Craig Thompson has brought the WAC to the verge of death.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 19, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions
And staved off death for his own conference
Unlike Pac-10, Big Ten, etc expansion, this was about survival, not maximizing revenue.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 19, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
He sure did
It was well played. And for Fresno and Nevada it just makes financial sense, it is a much bigger pie and their BSU well is one year from drying up.
I don't think the MWC is done yet either
Word down here is that they’re going after Houston and Tulsa. That would give the conference a couple big TV markets to offset the pot-splitting with two more mid-market teams. And Houston at least has been on the upswing for a few years…
I don't think they are done either
If BYU stays, they have 11, so I think they would try and get one more, probably Houston or possibly San Jose State for the Bay area. If BYU leaves they have 10 and would lose the SLC market so they may then make a push for Utah State to keep a presence there. Picking off one more WAC team would for sure kill it if it wasn’t dead already.
If they somehow got San Jose and Utah State, the remaining 4 are totally in the cold. Hawaii would likely go independant, Louisiana Tech and New Mexico State would be in the Sun belt or possibly Conf. USA if that conference loses some. That leaves Idaho in the middle of nowhere and they would likely have to go back to the big sky or I guess back to the Sun belt for football, not sure where the rest of thier sports would land, WCC?. This really is looking bad for our Palouse bretheren. For their sakes, I hope the WAC can pull it out.
Wilner scenario for WAC
Western Division
San Jose State
Hawaii
Idaho
Utah State
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
Eastern Division
New Mexico State
Louisiana Tech
North Texas
UT-San Antonio
Texas State
????
I would guess UTEP as the other eastern team.
Here is one for conversation
Should the PAC 12 pick BYU up for the other sports. I know it is not likely but on one hand it makes sense. BYU is the pin in the MWC effort to try and become an AQ and achieve relevance in the BCS picture. That would increase the leagues money, TV and recruiting presence. Would it make sense for either of the big conferences that border to take on BYU’s non football sports?
No. A thousand times, no.
Nobody wants BYU and the Pac-12 becoming the Pac-13 in some sports just won’t work.
You want to invite the Mormons into our home?
C’mon, man.
by Kyle Rancourt on Aug 19, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Reply fail.
Not sure why I replied to Brian, but hey, I think he gets it.
by Kyle Rancourt on Aug 19, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
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