PAC-10 EXPANSION: Chuck Young Speaks Out, Colorado Backing Out?
by Brian Floyd on Aug 24, 2010 5:23 PM PDT
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PrintA few comments by ex-UCLA chancellor Chuck Young to the San Francisco Examiner set off a firestorm of controversy that should've never happened this weekend. In an opinion piece for the Examiner, Glenn Dickey used comments from Young to illustrate his point that expansion was bad for the conference and bad for traditions.
Part of it is based on academic grounds. Among major conferences, the Pac-10 is the best academically, largely because of Stanford, Cal and UCLA. "Colorado is on a par with Oregon," he said. "Utah isn’t even in the picture."
[...]
"You have two schools in Washington, two in Oregon, two in northern California, two in southern California, two in Arizona, so you can have a complete round robin in football. I don’t see any way the other schools can be brought in without affecting the rivalries between the southern and northern California schools, for instance."
He goes on to say that Colorado and Utah bring nothing to the table and won't help the Pac-10 financially. We've seen the same arguments before, but with the title of chancellor attached all of a sudden these comments carry more weight. They shouldn't.
Let me be clear, Chuck Young has no bearing on what the Pac-10 does in expansion or anything else. He's an ex-chancellor looking to stir up some controversy and push the California schools to kill expansion.
The Pac-10 expansion ship has already sailed. The Pac-10 commissioners voted to approve expansion -- whether to 12 or 16 -- knowing that Utah and Colorado could be the only schools to join the conference. Young is late to the party and simply trying to rile up the masses.
What does Colorado have to do with this? Read on for a look at how not to write a column.
Word today is that Colorado will stay in the Big 12 until 2012 instead of joining with Utah next year. Time to panic, right?
However, CU and Big 12 officials appear to be having trouble reaching an agreement on the financial terms of the school's exit from the league under that scenario. So Colorado officials appear to be content to remain in the Big 12 an extra year. CU Chancellor Phil DiStefano is handling the negotiations with the Big 12.
Colorado isn't exactly in a great financial situation right now. They couldn't come up with the money to buy out Dan Hawkins' contract, leaving them with a coach they didn't want but couldn't afford to replace. If Colorado were to leave after this season, the penalty comes in the form of forfeiting 80% of the TV revenue they would've earned in the 2010 and 2011 seasons.
On the other hand, if they wait two years, the Buffs would forfeit 50% each year. While they would have to grit their teeth and hang around the Big 12 for another year, the money side of staying through the 2011 season makes sense. Either way, this is a messy breakup.
When combining Young's comments with Colorado likely staying in the Big 12 until 2012, an irresponsible reporter drew a ludicrous conclusion; Colorado will come crawling back to the Big 12.
Welcome to the league ...
Drum roll, please ...
Colorado.
Truth be told, I'm not sure how many folks in the Big 12 would welcome back the Buffs, but apparently, not everyone in the Pac-10 is rolling out the red carpet for them, either.
Former UCLA chancellor Chuck Young is leading the opposition of adding Colorado and Utah to the league. He is sending e-mails to the conference's chancellors and presidents. He is urging them to block the expansion.
This is just terrible. She starts her article by insinuating Colorado is headed back to the Big 12 because of comments from Chuck Young, also opining that they wouldn't be welcomed back. There's absolutely no reason to think Colorado wants to be anywhere except the Pac-10. It was clear they were second class citizens in the Big 12 North. Now, the Buffs are walking into the Pac-10 on equal footing while stepping into a much more stable situation.
The conference didn't want Baylor, and Colorado didn't want to be left out. Moving to the Pac-10 had long been the school's hope. Worried that Texas politics might leave it on the outside, Colorado accepted the Pac-10's invite.
[...]
When the remaining Big 12 schools decided to stay put, the Pac-10 ended up with only Colorado. It saw a need to even out its slate of schools, and that led to an invite for Utah.
These two schools weren't at the top of the Pac-10's wish list.
A little research would go a long way. Colorado and Utah were at the top of the Pac-10 wishlist before the Pac-16 idea erupted. Colorado was always going to be included in any Pac-10 expansion plans. The Buffs were a target for Larry Scott and the Pac-10 if the league expanded to 12 or 16.
The Pac-12 is happening. A grumpy ex-chancellor and a reporter from Oklahoma that has no insight into the situation don't change a thing. A firestorm like this should've never been sparked from Young's comments and bringing up the idea that Colorado would stay in the Big 12 -- while surmising the move to the Pac-10 was out of panic -- is irresponsible and lazy journalism.
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This has the stink
Of an old man trying to ruin the younger, smarter people’s good time. The conference has changed for the better but don’t tell that to the grumpy old man who probably hated it when Arizona and Arizona State were added in the early 70s.
by Michael The Coug on Aug 24, 2010 5:29 PM PDT reply actions
Obvious solution: Cut out the Arizonas
That state doesn’t even touch the Pacific! What is this? The Pac/Desert-10?
by Grady Clapp on Aug 24, 2010 5:40 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
What an old crooner
If he’s so worried about academics, why is ASU in the conference. They admit something like 95% of their applicants and, I’m relatively sure, don’t even have a library, nor are shirt required in class as each seat probably has a tanning lamp
Cheap shot?
by Michael The Coug on Aug 24, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions
It's only a cheap shot is someone defends themselves
but, yes
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
I suppose you're right
But I’m over it already.
by Michael The Coug on Aug 24, 2010 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions
In their defense
ASU’s academic record is pretty bad, but it’s not like yours is that great…
You’re less selective than Western…
Also
I love coming home and seeing my exact thoughts on an article written out in word form. That article created a story where there was none. Sloppy journalism.
by Grady Clapp on Aug 24, 2010 5:42 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Does this mean no more Coug Center ...
article of conjecture and fabricated facts to follow
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
You know what the Buffs are
by well you win some and lose others on Aug 24, 2010 5:46 PM PDT reply actions
I don't know or care if they're staying until 2012
It all hinges on the financials and whether they can work out a loan with the Pac-10. Either way it’s a short-term hassle for long-term happiness
Jenni Carlson writing a crappy article?
I’m shocked. I know Jenni Carlson for two things. One being columns talking about how Oklahoma deserved the Sonics because Seattle didn’t take care of them. The other for being the subject of the “I’m a man, I’m 40” Mike Gundy tirade.
Columnists are crappy writers almost by job description. Its just the way it is. Facts are means to be interpreted loosely.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 24, 2010 6:11 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Bet she wonders why print journalism is dying
I’d never known who she was nor will I frequent her writing but I happened to stumble across it today and was tired of the ridiculousness of this “story”.
Funny those are the other two columns she’s known for.
She thinks Oklahoma deserved the Sonics?
Wow…..I think I have a writer that I legitimately hate.
by Michael The Coug on Aug 24, 2010 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions
rec'd for writing the exact two reasons i was going to write
Oklahoma deserves her….and Brian Davis.
Let's all just enjoy this video again.
Click for Video. I can watch this over and over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoMmbUmKN0E
I AM A MAN!!! I’M 40!!!
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
That's why I don't read the newspaper!
Because it’s GARBAGE! And the editor who let it come out is GARBAGE!
Cougar999 version 2.0. Now with a shorter name!
I honestly think this is all posturing by the Big 12
Why in the world would they want Colorado to stick around? There’s absolutely no benefit to keeping a lame duck school for a year you don’t have to.
Agreed
The Big 12 is either bluffing, or they’re complete morons.
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Ok, I give.
What would the bluff be? I’m all about a good game of poker, but I fail to see how the Big 12 benefits. The sooner the Buffs leave, the more they pay.
Everyone wants Colorado to leave early
So Colorado is trying to negotiate to pay less but still leave in 2011. Sounds like the Big 12 isn’t budging, so I guess it will come down to who wants Colorado out in 2011 most. Maybe poker isn’t the right analogy – I guess it’s more like a game of chicken. In the end, I’m betting both sides will swerve and some kind of compromise will be made.
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Gotcha
That could very well be the case. With NU leaving after 2011 it benefits the Big 12 to have CU gone too, for scheduling purposes.
It's Dan Beebe's Big XII
Even money say they’re bluffing and that they’re complete morons.
Oh, and there’s no need to call Jenni Carleson irresponsible. She works for the Daily Oklahoman, so that’s a given. See also Barry Trammel’s House of Fail.
the Daily Oklahoman has set back journalism decades
I only started reading them a few years ago, when their Bennett propaganda started coming out, explaining to its constituents about the benevolent Clay Bennett rescuing a fledgling franchise from the evil abusive Seattle market with zero fans….
i’m assuming they’re drowning in Pullitzers
Thank you for calling this out...
Reading Young’s comments the other day was like hearing someone chime in on the Swogger/Brink debate, just now. Day late, dollar short does not even begin to describe it. The least he could have done was bring a new angle to the argument against expansion, but he just regurgitated the same stuff anyone paying attention has already heard a million times. As for a reporter picking up the story for anything but its humor value… wow, just wow.
Pretty sure Chuck Young is in his study right working on an op ed about how giving women the vote would be a big mistake.
Want to know why Tom Hansen did what he did for 25 years?
You now have your answer. He worked for guys like that.
By the way, I'm apologizing in advance for taking this off topic
Are you going to get back out to practice soon? Love the reports.
I had seen the Young piece this weekend and just dismissed it as stupid
When I found the one about Colorado today it bothered me enough to write about it. They’re both ridiculous on all accounts.
Also, I second what Jeff said. Hope you can get back to practice and post some of those reports.
Thanks Guys,
Good to hear. I hope to get out there soon, but I need coach Wulff to do a better job scheduling these practices around my day job.
by LongballWSUFB on Aug 24, 2010 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a horrible article, I get it, but
who is she writing for? She had a target audience. I teach 8th grade English, and even 13 year olds have a target audience. What did she hope to gain by writing this piece, besides filling up the requisite number of inches?
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
That reminds me
I broke my own rule and forgot to link to the article. She’s a columnist in Oklahoma. I have no idea how she used a quote from an LA guy to draw conclusions about Colorado to write a column for a news organization in Oklahoma.
Chip Brown?
Maybe she’s just throwing random stuff against the wall to see what sticks. That’s pretty much what happened in June when Chip Brown got his fifteen minutes of fame. Difference is, he had good sources and was being used by the UT publicity machine. She’s got nothing but an old dude living in the past. BTW, does anybody have a link to the article she referenced in San Francisco? I’d like to see it.
I didn't realize all the rubbish this Jenni Carlson wrote.
First the the Sonics going to Oklahoma (Boooo!) and then she was the columnist who got Mike Gundy all fired up. She is grasping at straws with this story. It is mid-August and nothing to report on in Oklahoma — No basketball, no baseball, no NFL — just Fall camp for College football. That is all there is for her to report on right now. This is a stretch. If it was important someone with more clout would be all over this. But who knows the media has been known to stir up a hornets nest.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
She got me!
That was the furthest thing from my mind when I ran across this article. I was trying to figure out the BYU situation and whether or not they are making a play to get into the Big 12 when I saw her story. If she’s trying to make a name for herself, she is certainly succeeding. But, not in the way that’s gonna advance her career unless she wants to work for the Enquirer.
Because lately its popular
to dogpile on the Buffs. The four-year-funk we’ve been in has made us the easy target for alot of crap like this.
We feel your pain.
CougCenter Formerly known as Dancing Football
Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Aug 26, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions
I'm Back!
I keep finding myself coming back to CougCenter because, well, it seems to be one of the best boards out there. I read this article yesterday and couldn’t believe what I was seeing. Then I saw the journalist. That, right there, explains a lot. Now, as most of you know, I’m in Big 12 territory and follow all things Big 12 and college football in general. There is no way Colorado wants to stay, nor does the Big 12 want them to. My only concern is if this old guy has any friends out there. Has the vote already taken place? I know it requires a unanimous vote to be accepted into the PAC. If so, this whole thing is just stupid. My next question is: wasn’t the PAC going to finance the penalties? I thought when Colorado accepted the invite that part of the deal was that the PAC was going to pay the fees and CU would repay through ticket sales, ect. I hope that CU finds a way to go in after 2011, because that’s when Nebraska is leaving. It is going to create scheduling nightmares if CU stays an extra year. Anyway, good site, good articles, and good comments as usual!
The vote took place before any maneuvering happened
The commissioners voted on it at the end of May or beginning of June. They gave Larry Scott a blank page and told him to expand however he saw fit, though they were presented options for both only adding CU/Utah or adding the Big 12 teams.
It’s unclear whether the Pac-10 is going to finance penalties but we’ll soon find out. CU has to do what’s best for them financially while also getting the heck out of dodge in the Big 12 so I’d assume they want to go in 2011.
As Jeff said above, this could be posturing. It could simply being CU say “fine, we’re gonna stay so you won’t have all that money you promised Texas and TAMU.”
That's what I thought.
I couldn’t imagine they would send Larry Scott out to put all this together THEN vote on it. But the article in the Oklahoman made me question that. You might be right, CU may very well be screw the Big 12 out of money, but if I was them, I’d just cut my losses and run.
Well, they can't afford to cut their losses.
If they couldn’t pay Hawkins’ buyout, they probably can’t absorb a Big 12 buyout that’s much higher. Instead, they could be trying to get the buyout for leaving after the season reduced. Neither side wants to be around each other.
This is a load of hooey!!
Howdy, CU fan here, and these articles are nuts!
Chuck Young: Idiot.
CU is in a pickle, that is definitely true. The Athletic Dept operated in the black for the first time in a long time last year, so they don’t have lots of money sitting around. Thus, it’s difficult for them to just go ahead and give up the fee that the Big 12 would be asking for 2 years notice. But we really need to make the move for 2011. It’s best for everybody. Two conferences playing 11-team schedules just because the Big-12 is making life difficult for Colorado? We originally gave 2 years notice, but everybody else (Nebraska and Utah) only gave one. So it’s definitely not Colorado’s fault that this is such a funky situation.
My only hope is that Mike Bohn (our AD) made these comments and had the news come out that we were staying for an extra year so that the conferences would get their butts in gear to help figure out a solution. CU is definitely responsible for some of the solution, but not all of it.
Lets hope this was just posturing.
DAG
Definitely don't blame CU at all for the situation
I hope it’s just posturing and still feel like they’ll be in the Pac-12 next year. I don’t think they want to pay that full buyout amount so somethings gotta give.
Agreed!
It is best for everybody if CU is allowed to leave after 2011. It would make life easier. Let’s hope the people who run our nation’s universities can see that! If everybody acts like grown ups, I think a deal can be worked out. Especially if the Big 12 has eyes for BYU. They can’t expand until they know who’s leaving when. And every bone in my body tells me the Big 12 isn’t content with 10 teams.
BYU
The most difficult part would be the scheduling around Sundays, which I don’t think is a big deal, because there aren’t many Big 12 events played on Sunday. When Baylor was originally invited, they didn’t play on Wednesday or Sunday. Travel would be more difficult for BYU, but for the rest of the Big 12, it’s not that much further than CU.
Replaces the loss of CU
BYU brings in part of the market CU is taking with them. ESPN doesn’t have much of a foothold in the west., so ESPN would be happy to get the Utah market, not to mention the national following of BYU. It’s all about footprint. Big 12 has no problems with religious affiliated schools or schools with their own network. But, I think ESPN would really like to see BYU in the Big 12, and will be willing to pay for it. The hard part is who would be the 12th team.
CU to stay through 2012
The Kansas City Star just posted this article: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/08/24/2173444/colorado-to-stay-in-big-12-through.html
Pretty much the same information linked in the post.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 24, 2010 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah
In fact, it sounded so familiar I checked to see if it it wasn’t just reprinted. I suppose the media is gonna have a field day with this too. Kickoff can’t get here fast enough for me! Once the games start, hopefully all of this “filler” will go away. I will have to admit though, it has kept me somewhat entertained in what is usually the most boring time of year for me. I’m not a big MLB fan.
Just posturing
I agree with those above that said this is just posturing. CU just has to show that they are willing to stay until 2012 in order for the Big 12 to reduce the buy out fee enough for them to leave early. They will be losing tv revenue by leaving and the Pac-10 isn’t splitting revenue with them until 2012. Utah is a different story as they aren’t coming in as a full memeber as far as revenue sharing goes, they gradually get paid more each year for like 4 years. Colorado is coming in as an equal member, but it wasn’t set for that until 2012, when a new tv contract will be in place. The Pac-10 can’t cut them an even slice for 2011 because it will still be the old tv contract and every other school would lose money. All of this probably leads in to the divisional split. Who is willing to give up what in order to get into the division they want? Another reason CU can just say, we’ll wait until 2012 and then be in the division with the LA schools. If they were desperate to come in 2011, they might not have as much leverage for that either.
Had to chime in
As a former chancellor, you’d think Chuck Young would have some idea of the costly ramifications of what he’s proposing (nevermind how late and/or ridiculous it is). Forget the extra gains brought in by adding new markets, television contracts a championship game in football. Let’s just think about the LEGAL costs. This isn’t akin to when some Big East schools brought a questionable lawsuit against the ACC in order to slow down their expansion of Miami and Boston College. In the case of both CU and Utah, the contracts have already been signed. Notice has already been given. The press conferences and photo-ops with Larry Scott are already over. Heck, in Utah’s case, the MWC has already started its own rebuilding process. Then consider the lawyer bills that would get tacked on top of everything else.
If he is as worried about the future of the PAC-10 as he says he is, he should realize it would be far more costly and damaging to ALL of its members to back out of expansion NOW.
Oh, and another indication of bad journalism: We’re talking about an email here, folks! Think about it—when you want to get something done, do you do it by email? No. I used email to shoot the ____ with my friends, or ask my wife what she wants to do for dinner. When someone really needs to deliver a message, there are more effective (not to mention formal) means of communication. That is all.
CU Fan...
Mr. Floyd. Kudos for refuting those biased and uninformed opinions floating around the interwebz. Well done.
One minor point. The impression of most CU fans regarding Coach Hawkins and the buyout is contrary to your assertion—that the funds were unavailable. While I don’t deny that the Athletic Department has struggled financially, by all counts sufficient funds were available for the buy out.
What was lacking was political currency. Even though CU’s Athletic Department is funded independently and not state or school supported, University leadership was concerned by the impression the buy-out would generate in the state legislature during budget negotiations. That, coupled with Coach Hawkins’ decent job of righting our program’s (mostly unfairly) tarnished image (nobody suspects a 3-9 team of shenannigans) allegedly caused our University President to retain Hawk. Apparently against the wishes of the AD.
Anyway, a minor clarification. Thanks again for the great points you made. Can’t wait to join the PAC!
Thanks for the clarification
It makes sense to me. I wasn’t sure of the details but knew there was something more behind the Hawkins thing
by Brian Floyd on Aug 25, 2010 8:43 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Question.
Wasn’t this journalist chick the same one who blew up the Nick Collison twitter “story”? I’m not sure if you guys heard about this, but last year Nick came back to Seattle during the summer and tweeted that it was gorgeous or whatever. Then the OKC media got a hold of it and figured he was saying “I HATE OKC AND STILL LOVE SEATTLE”. Wasn’t this the broad that wrote that story?
(And no, I don’t want to go look it up for myself. I don’t use Google anymore, I use CougCenter)
I took the 3 seconds and looked it up.
It was all over sports radio, and Kevin Calabro went bananas on the OKC version of Softy. It got pretty ridiculous. Her “story” was weird and I felt like she has a total crush on him. But then the OKC media took it and said he was a traitor, Seattle is awful and had no support for the Sonics
i just threw up in my mouth....
That one of the team’s veterans is talking up the city that fought the franchise tooth and nail can’t be all that popular
i hate her.
I only subjected myself to her one piece about Colorado
And I’ll never read anything she has again. How she’s still employed is beyond me.
Don't know if this thread is dead yet but....
I don’t know if any of you follow Chip Brown on Twitter, but he just posted this:
ChipBrownOB
My sources say B12 won’t lower fees to allow CU to bolt to P10 after this season. B12 willing to be 11 until 2012. … http://bit.ly/A7U8p
Who knows?
With him you never know what you are gonna get. My assumption is that his source at UT said gave this to him Since UT runs the conference anyway it may well be true.
Late to the game, guys, but if you so desire I just wrote a post on this bad boy, too!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
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