HOT COUGAR ACTION: Pac-12 Division Rumblings Not Good For WSU
by Jeff Nusser on Aug 31, 2010 7:10 AM PDT
in WSU Athletics
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PrintTons of stuff out there today as we lead up to the season-opener this Saturday at Oklahoma State, leading off with my latest piece at SB Nation Seattle on why the latest Pac-12 divisional rumors are bad for WSU.
Be looking for our SB Nation Pac-10 Preview, which will run on SBNation.com tomorrow.
WSU News
Pac-12 Division Alignment Talks Not Going Well For The Northwest - The Daily Drip - SB Nation Seattle
Jon Wilner of the San Jose Mercury News -- one of the most trusted and well-connected Pac-10 writers out there -- says the conference is leaning right now toward a north-south alignment in which the Northwest schools would be left out of California completely: Major concessions or not -- and, as a Coug, I do not quickly dismiss the prospect of more money heading into our budget -- this would be an absolutely awful arrangement for the Northwest schools.
WSU's Andrei Lintz follows Michael Roos to Paul Wulff - Spokesman.com - Aug. 30, 2010
Lintz, 6-5, 247 pounds, was born in St. Petersburg, but emigrated with his mother and brother when he was 6. He came to Pullman from Meridian High in Bellingham, where he first starred on the soccer pitch and basketball court before earning all-state honors as a senior punter and defensive end. He also played tight end at Meridian, the position he’s played all three years at WSU.
First Look: WSU at Oklahoma State - Spokesman.com - Aug. 30, 2010
This is a measuring stick for the Cougars. They have looked much improved on both sides of the ball during fall practice, but this game will let them know how far they have come and how far they have to go. Washington State opened the Paul Wulff era two years ago against OSU in Seattle and were in the game in the second half until a special-teams breakdown opened the floodgates. If this Cougar team is in the game in the second half, it gives it hope for the season ahead. If not, memories of the past two years may come flooding back.
Evening Practice Report - SportsLink - Spokesman.com - Aug. 30, 2010
As for the play on the field, it was enthusiastic, more so than usual after an off day. The elixir of game prep must have worked some sort of magic. … Marquess Wilson once more made a catch that seemed impossible, beating two defenders to grab a seemingly too-long Jeff Tuel pass during the seven-on-seven skelly drill.
There's a crapload more WSU News, as well as Pac-10 News and Random Crap, after the jump.
Bud Withers | Paul Wulff needs at least a chance to succeed | Seattle Times Newspaper
Sports Illustrated wrote that Wulff needs to win "at least five" to maintain fan support. You've got it all wrong, people. Losing games should only reinforce why the Cougars need to hold onto Wulff. OK, we exaggerate. But in a Joseph Heller-Catch 22 sort of way, Wulff's 3-22 record in two years only helps underscore why WSU ought to see his regime through.
Scout.com: New Monday practice works for Tuel
On the field Monday, Jeff Tuel and the offense looked sharp. In 7-on-7 drills, Tuel threaded the needle a number times, including a thing of beauty to freshman wideout Marquess Wilson. With freshman corner Damonte Horton – who will travel to and likely play at Stillwater -- in coverage, Tuel fired deep and appeared to have overthrown Wilson, but the standout freshman receiver caught the ball in full stride and fell into the end-zone for a TD. Later, sophomore receiver Gino Simone added the play of the night, when he dove full extension over the middle to haul in a 15-yard pass from Tuel.
True freshman on line | WSU Cougars - The News Tribune
The No. 2 right tackle on the updated depth chart unveiled Monday at WSU lists John Fullington, fresh out of Class 2A North Mason High School. "It’s just awesome coming here as a freshman, maybe getting an opportunity to play," Fullington said after the Cougars went through a light workout Monday night in preparation for Saturday’s season opener at Oklahoma State (4 p.m., FSN). Fullington and up to eight other true freshmen will travel and possibly play for the Cougars on Saturday. Coach Paul Wulff said "there’s a good chance" Fullington will see action Saturday and throughout the season.
Scout.com: How is the o-line playing really?
When the Cougar lines battle on any given snap, keep in mind, says Jason Gesser, there are times the defense knows exactly what’s coming. And that's an edge that can make all the difference. It's what gets lost in looking at fall camp practice and determining who won the day.
Scout.com: Cougar Football Notebook
Washington State has won just three football games in two years, so most observers hold modest expectations for the 2010 Cougars. That’s why a 3-0 start would put WSU back on the map of big-time college football. What, you ask? Three-and-0? Seriously? Absolutely.
Scout.com: Two deeps for Oklahoma State
Another take on the two-deep.
Cougars Open Season Saturday at Oklahoma State - WASHINGTON STATE OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE
Official release from the athletic department.
USF Tourney Beckons Volleyball to the City - WASHINGTON STATE OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE
The Washington State University volleyball team takes its 2-1 record to San Francisco this weekend for the Powerade/Asics Challenge Tournament hosted by the University of San Francisco...Cougs meet Tulsa (1-2) Friday afternoon, UC Santa Barbara (1-1) Saturday morning, and USF (0-3) Saturday night...all matches will be played in the War Memorial Gym (capacity 5,300).
Tony Thompson to Join Cougar Athletic Staff - WASHINGTON STATE OFFICIAL ATHLETIC SITE
"Tony has a great work ethic and will not only be a great resource for our current student-athletes, but he will do a wonderful job reconnecting with past Cougars and keeping them involved as we move forward," said Moos.
Pac-10 News
Coach Sark knows a thing or two about BYU - Jim Moore, SeattleP-I.com
Though we're both Cougs, Coach Sark went to BYU, and I went to WSU. At BYU, students are required to follow an Honor Code or risk being expelled from school. At WSU, if we had a code, I was either not aware of it or not following it very well, preoccupied with chasing coeds and playing countless games of losers-chug foosball at the Billiard Den in Moscow, Idaho. How I graduated is one of life's mysteries on a par with Jim McMahon, the beer-swilling and hell-raising quarterback, being a BYU alum.
Pac-10 week one: Quick previews - Pac-10 Blog - ESPN
Here's a quick look at the season-openers for every Pac-10 team.
What does it take to win the Pac-10? - Pac-10 Blog - ESPN
This is cool: It's the introduction to "The Eliminator," which is tracking the title race in each conference.
Pac-10 fearless predictions - Pac-10 Blog - ESPN
Here are 10 "fearless" predictions in advance of the 2010 season.
Random Crap
Two For The Money - WSU Football Blog
Go learn how to become a degenerate gambler!
SO BEHIND: THE LIST OF EDSBS ESSENTIALS TO GET BEFORE THURSDAY. - Every Day Should Be Saturday
A REALLY NICE SET OF WINE GLASSES AND A FEW BEER MUGS. Because you'll break them by the end of the season, most likely in "accidents." Some of those "accidents" might "coincide" with "70 yard TD runs allowed late in close games." Pure coincidence, we assure you.
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Amen.
CougCenter Formerly known as Dancing Football
Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Aug 31, 2010 8:48 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
This is why expansion was a bad idea
Anyone who ever though the north schools wouldn’t get screwed over is blind.
Big 12 redux coming our way….
by B-Lot tailgater on Aug 31, 2010 8:51 AM PDT reply actions
At first I thought expansion to 12 was great
but the more I think about it I don’t like the Pac12 idea. Pac16 or bust. I think I was enamored with the Pac12 network. I just want the Pac10 network now or the Pac16. I don’t want to go to North and South divisions unless we get Cal and Stanford. I don’t want WSU to become the Iowa St. of the north division. Is this what we will mirror?
Nebraska-Oregon
Missouri-UW
Kansas St.-Oregon St.
Iowa St.-WSU
Colorado-Colorado
Kansas-Utah
This is just ugly and I don’t like it. A bunch of schools where most of their recruiting grounds are outside their division. We are just letting the south schools become a dominant division. Then when conferences start splitting up again we will be left out like ISU and KSU. Not Good. I think it sucks that UA and ASU get this privilege when they were the last to join the Pac8(10). Also, think if the south division decides to try and join up with the best of the Big12. Then most of the Big12 north and Pac12 north could be out of luck. That is a possibility.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Ya, they may become ISU in the Pac12.
Because they will be so remote for the whole conference.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I did get the job by the way. I did laugh out loud.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I honestly think the Pac 16 would be even worse
The small chances we have of winning the conference as it is would go right out the window.
by B-Lot tailgater on Aug 31, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions
that last is a possibility
but how would any other structure preclude it? If anything, at least some of the other possibilities would highten the odds of a new “Gang of Five” (the 5 WAC schools who decided to bail and form MWC) forming, because then they’d have an excuse incredibly huge complaint.
IMO it’s worth noting that in the Big 12, the teams who actually left were Colorado (always preferred Pac-10) and Nebraska (PO’d over loss of Oklahoma game, unhappy w/ direction of league, liked the upgrade the B10 provided, etc.), neither of which were actually in the stronger division. And the school most blatantly pining to leave was Mizzou, also in the North. Of course, Texas flirted with both the Big Ten and Pac-10 (ditto for A&M w/ the SEC), but in the end they didn’t leave.
I dont really think this is a huge deal...
If we are able to get close to equal revenue sharing out of this we will be fine, its not like we wont play california schools every year. We will not turn out like the Big 12 north because there is a lot more tradition and better football here. Dont forget that would mean Utah being added to Oregon and Oregon State two of the top teams in the confrence this year (this years example)…
Its not as bad as we all think, more money would go further for us, especially under a new TV deal than not playing all the California schools every year.
The biggest thing
And this is what the sports business people all say, is that excellent football is the biggest revenue driver. The better the football, the more revenues expand exponentially. That should be the goal of everything they do — how can we make football in the conference better. THE WHOLE CONFERENCE.
by Jeff Nusser on Aug 31, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions
That is tough to do.
You can look at it in different ways. Keeping the CA schools together will make for good TV and revenue, but the north/south division split could hurt recruiting as well as the North Divisions exposure and quality of play, which may bring down the quality of football it the North Division. I am not sure how we can find this happy medium to help keep quality football across the two divisions and keep everyone happy. I think a round robin style might be best suited for everyone, you may miss a couple teams, but the conference championship would hopefully crown a true champion, but I think we have to have two divisions per the NCAA.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Great football is what drives revenue
Great football across an ENTIRE conference. How many major media centers does the SEC have? Yet, they’ve got the richest television contract in college sports.
So you tell me how important the media markets really are?
I agree that media markets are important
but the SEC is a different animal than the Pac10. I think we are comparing apples and oranges. The south is crazy about football, compared to the west coast. Football is life in the south. The west coast has a lot more going on. The LA Lakers are huge, but I can’t tell you how many times I have been to a game and it isn’t sold out. The sports mentality is different here on the west coast. Also, they don’t have one media market (or population) in the SEC like California, that dominates the conference. The schools are in close proximity of each other and a lot of people that live in the south have many family and friends that live all over, so it is not that big of a deal for a kid in Florida to go to Alabama or LSU, but for a kid from LA to go to Pullman it is a big deal. I am also sure that a kid in South Carolina has heard of LSU or knows someone who has gone there. Since, moving down hear to SoCal 10 years ago I can see how it is important for us to be in this region every year. A kid out of Bellflower, Downey, Compton or Hawthorne parent’s are not going to travel to Pullman. Also, a lot of people don’t know anything about WSU down here. People who are from SoCal only care about SoCal (usually). They think this is the only place that matters. Recruiting is different in the SEC because a lot of the south is fertile recruiting grounds, unlike the Pac12. Because everything in the south in closer in proximity the SEC travels well—the population is also more spread out. Also, LSU and Arkansas are close to Texas and can recruit there. We don’t have the recruiting advantages that a lot of the SEC does. This map will help give you an idea of what I am talking about. If the Pac12 goes north/south I see the potential for the south division becoming much stronger, but hey I could be wrong and in 10 years this could be a moot point. It just makes me nervous for the future with the possibility of these super conferences forming and leaving us out.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
One bright side to being in a north division
It will be an easier division to win and get a shot at the PAC 12 championship game. Right now, some of the north teams are really good, but historically it would be a more favorable division. If we are having a good year and you get Oregon and Washington at home, look out. As a Seahawks fan, the NFC west has been kind to us. I don’t deny that the perception and recruiting issues will hurt, though.
by spencer peaty on Aug 31, 2010 10:28 AM PDT via mobile reply actions
And Jason Gesser is a reporter!
CougCenter Formerly known as Dancing Football
Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Aug 31, 2010 11:10 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
CougCenter needs to counter.
Get me a former player on the phone ASAP.
by Brian Floyd on Aug 31, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Brandon Jones
I am sure he has free time and would be a great fit for CougCenter.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
"The Flame"
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Interesting.
I thought Gesser would have already jumped on this wagon, but I guess broadcasting and all his camps keep him busy. I wouldn’t be surprised if we see Brink doing some stuff in a few years. I heard he is a real intelligent dude.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Gesser is also the head coach at Eastside Catholic
So he is a pretty busy guy in the fall.
I've been buried writing about UW and Jake Locker, so I have the urge to repost this from EDSBS
by Brian Floyd on Aug 31, 2010 3:30 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
writing about UW huh?
sounds less than pleasant
Honestly...
I wouldn’t mind that division makeup. I might be moving to Utah, so that would give me more chances to see WSU. Plus lately the North has been playing better. If the North teams can continue to beat the South teams, it won’t matter that they’re the California schools. USC is on probation and ESPN has taken a liking to Oregon’s glamor—not to mention they like UW’s tradition. This might help WSU because when it comes to recruiting, we never get the high profile California recruits anyways. Our guys work hard to find those hidden gems regardless of where they are…
Eh, this isn’t really thought out, but at the moment I’m fine with it.
We did get a lot of
recruits from the Bay Area and Wulff is starting a pipeline there.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
and hopefully Florida
which is crazy to me.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
The 9 game conf schedule to the rescue!
Let’s say it breaks out as Wilner describes. For scheduling purposes, we should insist on playing one of the partner schools every year (USC/UCLA, Cal/Furd, ASU/UA) along with the five division games. That’s 8 games. The ninth will be round robin’d so that one year we play the other of each group (USC *AND*UCLA, etc.). This means 2 of every 3 years we’re playing in CA 2x, just like now. Only 1 year in 3 are we losing a CA game. Really not a huge loss.
If we get that condition along with a favorable revenue agreement, I think we’ll be golden.
by TiltingRight on Aug 31, 2010 9:15 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
Actually, just realized...
That other game wouldn’t be in CA every year, but would alternate home/away.
We’d have 8 games in CA every 12 years.
by TiltingRight on Aug 31, 2010 9:18 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
A couple notes
Presuming that the CA schools will demand (and get their way) to all play each other every year:
1) The so-called “California zipper” is substantially better than the “regular zipper”. The regular zipper means annual games against Arizona and Utah (or the other members of the local pair, depending on structure), which seems pointless. Presuming all NW schools play each other every year, why always play Arizona but only get ASU every other year (and same for Colorado/Utah)? Makes little sense to me, to be honest. You’d also have the two Arizona schools fighting with each other about which didn’t have to be in the same division as Wazzu (since November games in Pullman pretty much suck for any warm-weather team), which isn’t a positive way of starting things out.
2) The “California zipper” may not work after all. Theoretically it makes a lot of sense. However, given the shitstorm that the Big Ten is absorbing from Ohio St and Michigan fans about moving their rivalry game away from the last weekend and potentially having a CCG rematch of “The Game”, it’s hard to say that doing the same for the league’s most valuable rivalry, UCLA/USC (not to mention Cal/Stanford, though that’s not as big of a deal), is a good idea. Note that all of the problems listed here also apply to the “normal zipper.”
3) A wacky format is unlikely to get support. For instance, you could do a “rotating CA zipper”, which would be teh CA zipper, except both LA schools are together, both Bay Area schools in the other, and you flip-flop the pairs every 2 years. Theoretically, this works great, but I doubt the league is interested in doing anything weird and experimental.
4) Some form of North/South split is likely. That essentially means that the choices are: Cal/Stanford in the North, or Utah/Colorado. If you get the Bay Area teams, then you’re still going to (almost certainly) have to give them both 2 LA games, which means that everyone else in the North gets 1 LA game per year (and one game at LA per 2 years). This means 3 LA trips and 6 Bay Area trips per 6 years. If you get Utah and Colorado, then there probably won’t be any special cross-divisional arrangements, which means that you get 4 LA trips and 4 Bay Area trips per 6 years.
Having discussed this from time to time on various boards, the overwhelming feedback from NW fans has been “we don’t really care about Bay Area trips, LA trips are what matter to us”. In that case, a CA/AZ division makes the most sense of the two possibilities, because you’re going to get +1 LA trip in exchange for -2 Bay Area trips.You also get +2 CO/UT trips and -1 AZ trips (I think) as balancing items. My impression is that NW fans (including Wazzu ones) prefer that arrangment, but I could be wrong.
The problem with North/South split is
when one division has two great teams.
by well you win some and lose others on Aug 31, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
isn't that a problem in any split?
You always run the risk of the two best teams being in the same division (or 3, like the 2008 Big 12 South). Or did you mean that the issue is that UCLA/USC would be in the same division?
i don't know if they will or not
, part of why I was trying to clarify. I wasn’t clear on what you were trying to argue, whether your issue was that the 2 biggest traditional league powers (UCLA/USC; though Washington has a case for top 2) were in one division, or just that it’s possible in a given year that the best 2 teams will be in one division. If it’s the second, then it’s an issue regardless of the setup, because any setup could potentially have a year with two great teams in one divisions and zero in the other.
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