WSU Basketball vs. California Recap: Cougs shot down in Berkeley
by Grady Clapp on Jan 13, 2011 10:41 PM PST
in 2011-2012 WSU Basketball News
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PrintAfter any loss, it's natural for us fans to search for the cause. Something to blame. Something to point at and say "hey, if we just get better at _____" or "give more minutes to _____", we'll be back on the right track!
Except sometimes your team plays well enough to win, and doesn't. I said the key for the Cougs this weekend would be shooting and avoiding turnovers. They did both pretty well tonight against Cal... winning the turnover battle (in TO%) and staying close to the Bears in effective field goal percentage. They were the team battling back in the second half and making key plays down the stretch. Then again, tonight was also a bad time for our normally decent defense to take the night off. Of course, I couldn't see what happened to the Cougs defensively (e.g. was it more them, or us?), because the game wasn't on TV. Thank you, Tom Hansen. Ultimately, you can't put your finger on any one issue - well, maybe Allen Crabbe going berzerk, but that's all I can think of.
This team has all the tools. They have Klay Thompson. The have a great starting five. They have (just) enough depth to allow them to compete with anyone in the conference. It's difficult to pinpoint anything fundamentally wrong with this team, other than just failing to come through on the road in Pac-10 play. Which is understandable. But tournament teams find ways to win games... non-tournament teams don't.
And that's where the frustration lies. This team may not be who we thought they were. They were killed yet again in free throw rate... out-rebounded on both ends despite Casto's stellar night.
On the other hand... if they win at Stanford they have a very realistic shot at being 4-3 in conference going into the Arizona/UW games. And then we're all forgetting about tonight.
Now more than ever, I cannot put my finger on an answer for this team. It's on them. If they really want to go dancing this March, they have to start winning games like this.
Saturday in Palo Alto, they'll have the opportunity.
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I watched the whole game on TV
And I can thank Coug Friendly Canuck for posting the link at the beginning of the game thread.
DertingFactor found it first.
Man, I miss that tune from before the game. That was theb est part of last night.
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Jan 14, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
So, now that I know most of you online saw the game
Were the defensive issues the fault of WSU? Or did Cal just have a great shooting night?
And, schematically, did the Cougs’ troubles come more in man or zone?
Writer: CougCenter Twitterer: @GradyClapp
Played almost all man
And were awful at it.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2011 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
Three main issues I saw on defense.
1. We were doubling the post and getting killed on kick out 3’s. Slow rotations, whatever, they probably got 15ish points from passes out of double downs.
2. Transition defense was awful. We shoot a lot of 3’s so sometimes long rebounds happen but our guys were getting jammed up inside with no one or one guy back. Not to mention more than once in transition instead of getting back guys were just reaching.
3. Very poor job of boxing out by the perimeter guys. As mentioned, we got killed by a number of long rebounds and often times it was a Cal guard running the ball down without a defender in sight. Instead of putting a body on a guy until the ball was secured it seemed like some guys were either caught napping or trying to get out in transition.
Simon says the jimmy feels good tonight!
by Mark Sandritter on Jan 13, 2011 11:53 PM PST up reply actions
I think the coaches are coaching D, but the players aren't listening
or we don’t have a solid defensive philosophy. I don’t think a lot of these players fit Bone’s defensive philosophy. Capers, Klay and Casto are probably the only one’s who do. I think he would prefer long athletic defenders, similar to UW and K-State. Capers is great but he is no Weaver. It would be nice to have a player like Bobby Jones (back in the day) from UW. Does anyone know how Michael Ladd is on D?
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
" I don’t think a lot of these players fit Bone’s defensive philosophy."
That might be true long term, but I don’t buy that as an issue now. They’ve tailored the defense this year to fit the personnel. Problem is, they seem to be a “momentum” defense — when it’s going well, they turn up the intensity. When it’s not … well, they’re just sort of slow.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
That is what I am saying.
They’ve tailored the defense this year to fit the personnel.
Bone isn’t playing the defense he really wants to play. He has had to tweak it. I am guessing here, but I think he likes players with long wings spans who can disrupt the passing lanes, which creates turnovers that lead to fast break points. How many fast break points do we have this year? Yes, they are a momentum defense due to the other team missing shots and then they find their confidence. Have you noticed when all the guys are play well on offense it makes their defensive intensity rise? The offense looked stagnate at times last night, which made our defense lackadaisical.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
We have Capers, Aden and Thompson.
You don’t get three players with longer wing spans than that on the perimeter. I’m going to be addressing the turnover issue, trust me.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
I really don't think of Aden having a long wing span
but you are right on Thompson and Capers.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
I find myself missing Kopravica on this team.
He added some toughness.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Dang it. Thanks for pointed out that I was wrong.
My bad. I think Bone was trying to bring in some instant scoring…he must not have watched tape on Aden’s defensive skills. I thinking I am starting to jump on Nuss’s bandwagon…at least when in comes to basketball JC players.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
I have no idea why we were trapping Kamp and Sanders-Frison
And it wasn’t even a good trap; they were able to make crosscourt passes out of it pretty easily.
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Jan 14, 2011 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I think it made sense for whoever was guarding Sanders-Frison.
That guy is a load. We didn’t have anyone to contest with him one-on-one. I would have preferred the zone as a better defensive strategy against that, however.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
Lets see
Thompson scores 36 and Cal’s freshman Crabbe scores 30. Thompson 0pts in overtime, Crabbe 4pts in overtime. They went a box-in-one defense in the OT and we didn’t know what to do. Great idea by Montgomery. You only have 5 minutes in overtime and by the time we figured out the box-in-one the game was over. It usually takes a college team a few possessions to figure out the D and a few possessions means half the overtime. We should have counteracted with a trap or something, so they had to spend time figuring it out. It seems like I am blaming the coaches, but if you are looking at the whole game, I put it on the players. Guys didn’t step up. I am still angry over this loss.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
O ya, Lodwick fouling out early in the OT probably hurt us more than any of us know.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Fortunate enough to attend...
Here are my thoughts on the road game experience: (I’ll leave analysis to those of you who know what you’re talking about)
1. Klay’s regulation tieing shot should be an all-time Coug highlight. It was very similar to his shot against Baylor, but back a few more feet. It was one of the most confident pull-ups I’ve ever seen a player make from that range. Sadly, only those in attendance (or watching online) got to witness it. Too bad no one else felt like stepping up last night. It’s one of those games where if any one else would have contributed anything we could have walked away with it. On the flip side… if Klay would have been slightly off, we would have gotten spanked. I’m less and less comfortable with a system that absolutely has to rely on hot shooting to win games.
2. There was a time out where Capers must have missed an assignment on D (gave up a 3 I think) and Bone was piiiiiissed. He called a TO, was letting Marcus have it near the scorer’s table, and Marcus was nodding “I know, I know” and walked towards the bench. Bone stood there on the court and just pointed to the floor at his feet, meaning “get your ass back here.” Then went off for the remainder of the TO. I’ve never seen him react that sternly before.
3. This is the first (non-tourney) road game I’ve attended for hoops. And I have to say, it makes me proud to be a Coug. There was a pretty respectable turnout… say, maybe 30 fans scattered about… but we were loud! The Cal crowd was mostly alumni or locals. The student section was tiny compared to Beasley. But the acoustics of the place makes the sound reverbate. There was one uber-fan behind the hoop wearing a WAZZU letterman’s jacket. He looked familiar so I’m not sure if he was a former athlete or not. But he started a Go Cougs chant during the 2nd half comeback that had all of the crimson standing up around the arena. Very, very cool to see. Cal kept responding with their own chant and applauding themselves afterwards for being louder… at their own home game. A CGB poster even talks about how the student section (if you can call it that) started to move towards the WSU fans just to try and drown them out.
I travel a lot for work and try to take in athletic events around the country when I can. I’ve been to Clemson, Colorado, and now Cal for hoops and I have to say… I think the Beasley game-day experience is pretty hard to beat (when the students are in town). We’ve got a beautiful facility, loud and passionate fans, and by far the best looking dancing girls! ; ) Which for an old guy like me, is worth the price of admission. This is why you will never hear me bad-mouth a Bennett. Cougar basketball used to be dull and heartless. Now, win or lose, Pullman is one of the best venues to watch a game… no doubt about it.
Regarding thought #2
I just cannot imagine Bone doing the same thing to Moore or Aden, even though they’ve been worthy of such a butt chewing in their respective times here. Whether it’s due to favortism or or not believing they have the personality to withstand it, there’s just no way I could ever see it happening.
are any of us in position to know if Bone has favorites or treats players differently?
I’m not a big fan of amateur psychology…
Okay, I do have a "game analysis" comment to make...
There were 2 decisions in the last minute of play that effectively put this game out of reach. Correct me if I’m wrong, because this is how I remembered it:
1. Down by 3, 40 secs to play, 20 secs on shot clock and Cal has the ball. Reggie goes for the foul. Why??? Give your defense a chance to make the stop and hopefully get the ball back for the last shot to tie it once again. Freethrows made and now the hole is twice as big.
2. Down by 6 I think with about 15 secs left, Faisel gives a nice pump fake from beyond the arc, defender goes up and Aiden goes by him to take a 2 pt jumper that he misses. Down by 6 we need 3’s. He had the defender in the air and a perfect opportunity to go to the the stripe for 3 shots. Or better yet, if he makes the shot on the foul… a possible 4 pt play. A 2 would have done nothing for us there.
I don't mind and what is Aden doing?
1. I don’t really mind. That could have been a Reggie mistake, but we tied it and went into overtime.
2. I don’t agree with anything Aden does. On one defensive play I saw him standing in the key forever guarding no one and Cal threw a cross court pass to Aden’s man for a wide open 3. Aden sprinted at him (like he always does) but it was way to late. What the heck was Aden doing? Even if we were playing zone he was to deep.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
He was talking about overtime.
That is when we fouled down three.
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by Craig Powers on Jan 14, 2011 10:41 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Per #1
But this occurred during overtime, not regulation. Both freethrows were made so instead of being down by 3 with a 20 sec differential between shot and game clocks, we ended up down by 5, in desperation mode for 2 scores, and the clock working against us. That’s the point I put my jacket on, because our odds of coming back just dropped off a cliff.
We still haven't played UA or UW. That was the last slipup we can afford.
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 14, 2011 10:48 AM PST reply actions
Afford for what?
I think any kind of statement such as that needs context. Slip-up to win the conference regular season title? Yes. Slip-up to earn a higher-than-8-seed in the tournament? Probably. Slip-up to get in the tournament? No way.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
I'm saying you mark the games on the calender as what I guess I would refer to as "acceptable losses"
UW, UA, UCLA, and USC.
So far, you are 0-2 in those games and that becomes much more relevant when you lose to teams like Cal, Stanford, ASU, Oregon, and Oregon State. Those are the games that if you get the wins (by being the better team, which WSU is) you’ve got 10 conference wins off the bat. Now 2-1 in those games, so it puts more pressure on those game. If you lose another of those game, then the best you’ll do is 8-2.
So to get to a solid 12 conference wins, must go 4-4 in those other 8 games. Now you must go 4-2 since you’re already 0-2 in those games.
If we lose to Stanford, I do think its bad news for our tournament chances. Of COURSE, it doesn’t eliminate us from the tournament automatically, but it’s a serious dent.
I’m just saying I’ll prefer the comfort of not having to win a conference tournament game or two.
by Kenneth Arthur on Jan 14, 2011 4:13 PM PST up reply actions
Well if you're counting games off as losses where we would be perceived underdogs.
You can’t count UCLA and USC at home as losses because we will most likely be favored in those games.
But the bottom line is: You just gotta play the games to see.
I think its obvious this team is not what we thought
It has been two years not and this is a very good team when it plays teams from smaller schools and conferences, but when they play against the big boys of the Pac-10, its becoming more and more clear this is just an average team thats best hope is making the NIT, not the NCAA tournament. It says a lot that a team we all thought would be a top three team and has a player like Klay Thompson that we are a middle of the pack team in a year when the Pac-10 is clearly down and really not thought of to highly across the nation. Besides Klay this team really has no players that can compete on a consistent level to be a top team in the Pac-10.
I just hope they can make the NIT but fear they will be one and done there, at least in the CBI they might win a game or two because of Klay.
Oh yeah, and there is no chance Klay comes back next year, I highly doubt he wants to be a team that cannot support his talents.
And Bone, you better start hitting the recruiting trail a little better, so far your recruiting classes have been pretty weak and the ones you have upcoming aren’t to impressive either. You combine that with the fact we have nobody on the roster to help carry this team when Klay leaves after the season and it looks more and more likely this program is about to fall back to were it was before the Bennett’s took over.
Overreact much?
People who think this isn’t an NCAA-caliber team need to take a look at the quality of the teams considered on the bubble.
Shaking. My. Head.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
Sorry, just because I don’t agree with how good you think this team is makes me overreact? What has this team done in the last year and a half to make you think this is a tournament team?
Well for starters
there’s this: http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/the_head-to-head_fallacy/ . Second there is something called context where you examine the other teams that the cougs are competing against for a tournament bid. Then look at how we played against Baylor and Gonzaga: two tournament level teams. Lastly we are only 5 games in to the conference season, so cool it there is a long way to go and we haven’t played our best ball yet.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
Sorry no
I am entitled to my opinion and entitled to post it on a public blog like you are. Doesn’t really give people the right to attack me saying I am overreacting and to cool it.
Sorry, if you all think this is a tournament team, then fine, I respect that, but respect my opinion as well, I am not attacking you all saying your overreacting or to cool it. If you want to argue by merits then by all mean lets do it.
I see this team as regressing since earlier in the season making me to think, for the second straight season, they have played their best basketball earlier in the season. Yes, we played well against Kansas State, but lost, and against Gonzaga and won. But since then we have been underachieving with the exception of the first half against Baylor. We have played poorly on the road against teams that are clearly less talented – Santa Clara, UCLA, USC and now Cal. Even at home, and I think most can agree, we didn’t play to our full potential against the Oregon schools and neither game never felt like it in hand until the very end.
I didn't say cool it.
I asked you to take a look at the other bubble teams and see if they’re really that much better than us. You haven’t done that. I have. People such as yourself need to understand that the tournament is a moving target. This team still has a ton of chances to prove itself worthy of a tournament bid.
You certainly are entitled to your opinion. But if you refuse to back it with solid analysis, expect to get challenged.
Oh, and by the way — of the four teams you listed that are “clearly” less talented, I’d only agree with one. UCLA and USC are at least our equal, and one could argue the same about Cal. It’s just that the Bears are so inexperienced.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Cal's starting lineup actually isn't that inexperienced anymore, now that Franklin's on a plane to Texas
Three of the guys played major roles in previous seasons, and only one is a freshman.
Where the inexperience comes in is the bench, because right now it consists of two freshmen, a guy who played like 20 minutes total last season, and a walk-on.
As far as pure “talent” goes, don’t write off Stanford. They might be a deeper and more athletic team than any of those three, though they’ve got issues at point guard (as witnessed by last night— how on earth does a basketball team win a game with three assists?!).
As for WSU, you’ve got a not-uncommon problem for non-powerhouse teams. Your top three guys are clearly better than other people’s, but the rest of them are not as good. It’s difficult to draw a direct comparison in terms of “talent level” between the Cougs and a team like Stanford.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
Kelly told him to cool it.
..any team that has an elite scorer and can rotate 8 competitive college hoops players can compete in the Dance. See Davidson
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
UCLA, USC and Cal are not "clearly less talented" than us.
especially at home
Perhaps I'm mincing words here
but I don’t think a team can be more or less talented based on where they play. A team is what it is. Some teams can’t win on the road, but that doesn’t mean they don’t have the talent to do so.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
you don't think teams play better when they're at home?
i’m not sure i understand you here.
I think teams are more successful at home
Actually an interesting article in SI this week on the exact topic, but my point is that a team doesn’t become less talented when they travel. Perhaps they are less successful, but that have everything to do with other factors outside of talent.
I’m just focused on the word talent and I shouldn’t be because I understand what your point is. I’m just going all English teacher unnecessarily.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
I tend to agree here
The team had some amazing games early in the year, but right now, they don’t look good. I think they are a tournament team. I think their early season performances indicate that, but if the team continues to play as they have in the last 5 games they are going to have an incredibly hard time making the tournament.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
i'd agree with this assessment
we’ve had a bad stretch of games. i don’t think that means it’s over.
I think ultimately
The post that spawned this entire uproar is a reaction to what I referred to.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
I'm sorry by cool it I didn't mean you should stop voicing your opinion.
I’m not attacking you. I assumed that you would be open to some evidence that the Cougs are still ok. I just meant you didn’t have to think the sky was falling and the season was over. That there is some hope this team can start playing to its potential. I have also been extremely frustrated with our play on the road. But I also know it’s the middle of the season with a ton of conference play to go.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
I think the reaction is that many of us feel that this team has NCAA tourney
talent, but it won’t get to be displayed in the NCAA tourney this year and definitely not next year.
I am still not a KB fan, and will continue to wait for him to show me that he is in control of his team. Of course, I am not a PW fan either, so it really sucks to me because apparently I am a half empty type of guy.
Maybe it’s just my expectation for WSU programs, which are .500, .500, great season (bowl or NCAA tourney), .500, .500, great season, .500, .500, great season, etc.
by ptowncoug3012 on Jan 14, 2011 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Saying they will be a tournament team is also just not factual
All we are saying is this team has yet to prove they belong in the tournament.
What have you seen from this team that says they will make it?
Is it their suffocating defense? Opps, we dont have that. Is it our overwhelming advantage in rebounding? Oh wait, we dont have that either. Is it our high powered offense that can score at will over anyone? Nope, outside of Klay we don’t have that either. Is it because we can make out free throws? Nope, can’t do that either. Is it because our abundance of depth that we can keep throwing out there? Sorry, Simon, Aden and CharlieBall is not scaring anyone.
Yes, this team can do these things good every now and then, and can do them good against inferior teams, but PLEASE, help me understand what you are seeing from this team against GOOD teams that makes you think they will make the tournament? Help me see what you are seeing!
NEWS FLASH
None of the other bubble teams can do those things either. None of us are saying they will be a tournament team. What we’re saying is that it’s far too early to make that judgement one way or the other.
I’m going to have a post on their bubble status later. That might shed some light.
was just about to write that
nobody’s saying this team doesn’t have its deficiencies. but there aren’t many teams in the country that can’t be exploited either.
saying we’re still in the running for one of the 68 tournament spots is a lot different than saying we’re going to win the Pac-10.
I have to agree with ajs, that saying they are a tourney is not factual either.
At this time, it is pure speculation on both sides.
Regardless, this team is on a dangerous course and if they continue to perform this way, they will not make the tournament. That is factual.
This is where good coaches excel. They are able to right the ship. Let’s remember what people were saying about Howland and UCLA earlier this year. Right the ship, Bone!! Right the ship!!!
by ptowncoug3012 on Jan 14, 2011 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
Only one person in this conversation is making declarative statements.
And this is probably the best way I’ve heard it put yet:
Regardless, this team is on a dangerous course and if they continue to perform this way, they will not make the tournament. That is factual.
Agreed.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 15, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
... Michael Vick?
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
by kelly20210 on Jan 14, 2011 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just because I am questioning my team that makes me a bad fan
That makes sense. I never said I didn’t support my team, I just dont think they are as good as I thought.
i think there's a difference between questioning your team and making sweeping overreactions of how the rest of the season will play out
by BigWood! on Jan 14, 2011 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But I think he is entitled to his statements
It’s not like he is making things up. He has watched games and has seen something that makes him feel this way. To suggest that he is overreacting devalues his opinion, one for which he is allowed.
Does he share the same opinion as most readers of this blog? No, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t allowed to be a voice of dissent.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
by HitKing69 on Jan 14, 2011 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
To be a voice of dissent, you need to present reasons for dissent
Are there valid issues with this team? Yes, he points them out. Does he make any valid argument for why this team can’t make the tournament? No, he does not, which I’m going to assume (based on the things he wrote) is based on a flawed analysis of what makes a “tournament team.”
What makes a “tournament team” is being either a conference champ or one of the 34 best remaining teams, which really basically means being one of the top 45 or so teams in the country. Is this team one of the top 45 teams in the country right now? Maybe? Maybe not? But it’s definitely not a resounding “no.”
That’s where I’m coming from.
i didn't say he couldn't make his opinion
i do feel that his opinion is an overreaction. are we a title team? no. but there are several other “tournament locks” that have the same deficiencies we do.
I am upset, but I still give hope a chance.
We love sports because they are unpredictable. Who knows what is going to happen the rest of the year. Pomeroy doesn’t even get it right because of the human factor. Bone is only in his second year and we are not Duke or anyone else.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Bone inherited most of this.
This team has gone from a defense first makeup to offense first. That was Bennett ball and that’s fine. Having watched Bone’s teams for 15 years or so I don’t get the impression that these are all his type players.
The first thing that comes to mind is high basketball IQ. His teams never beat themselves and actually the opposite. They would put teams in positions to beat themselves. One play in particular comes to mind and I remember chirping (I was rooting for CWU) about it to him after the game as he was leaving the court and all he did was point at the scoreboard and ask what it said. But his teams were all very fundementally sound. They played a good inside/out game with a fair amount of 3’s.
I tend to agree this team is not quite “there” yet. The funny thing about sports especially with young kids is they could catch fire and virtually win out. Especially with the level of competition in the pac.
Like Wulff, I give Bone a pass till he get’s a recruiting cycle through.
Go Cougs
So, when I was watching the game.
The quality was very blurry. But I was pretty sure that Aden was the player guarding Crabbe at the beginning of the game. And most of the time it was his fault for leaving him open for three-point shots.
Then, once Bone or whoever realized that Crabbe was becoming their biggest offensive threat we put other defenders (better defenders) on Crabbe. Crabbe still was getting some open looks, but overall it appeared that the coverage of Crabbe was much better when Aden was not guarding him and Crabbe was force to make some contested/semi-contested shots.
Is this what other people saw as well?
Overall, I have not been impressed with Aden’s defense. He jumps the occasional pass maybe once a game, but all other aspects of his defense are severely lacking.
Putting Aden in man-to-man is a death wish
He has quick hands in a zone, but his feet are somewhere between below-average and GET HIM OFF THE FLOOR. Watch him try to fight through screens and you’ll see it.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
by Brian Floyd on Jan 14, 2011 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah that was the problem with Crabbe getting open last night when Aden was guarding him (or attempting to guard him).
He was not fighting through the screens and the other Cougar defenders were not switching.
I mean, I know it can lead to mismatches when defenders switch after a screen… but with the way Aden has so much trouble following his man, it has got to be something worth considering doing with respect to Aden when he is on the floor.
I swear in the past
We’ve been in zone 75% of the time Aden is on the court. I don’t know where it went last night.
I'd argue his issues are less about physical ability and more about aptitude.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
I'd agree with that.
By fighting through screens, I meant the routes he takes. He literally tries to go through the screens. He has no idea about under/over.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
by Brian Floyd on Jan 14, 2011 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
That's what I mean.
His feet seem plenty fast enough to me. He’s just terribly stunted in his understanding of how to play defense. That dude’s coaches failed him somewhere along the line.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
Yea, that's what I've meant by his feet.
It’s not that he isn’t quick — he is — it’s that he has no idea where he’s going on the defensive end. I can’t count the number of times he tried to just go through a screen instead of choosing under or over. If he could figure out what the different routes do, at least he may have some hope. I’m not seeing it.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
by Brian Floyd on Jan 14, 2011 11:58 AM PST up reply actions
And this is the problem with JC guys.
No time to teach them. When you figure incremental improvement, he is not even going to be close to where he needs to be by the end of next year.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
Not to be mean...
but a lot of JUCO players don’t have there sh!^ together to get into college, and the chances of getting a less mature player and person is much more likely. I do not know if that is the case with Aden, but he clearly lacks discipline on the court.
I think Moore is capable of totally flipping this season around...
…just for the simple fact that he’s playing well below what he’s capable compared to everyone else on the team.
I don’t understand why he’s been so bad inside the arc. He’s got a great looking shot, he’s great at getting to the rack (at least i thought), and he’s great at creating space for a jump shot.
If he can improve his passing and FG%, which I think he can, then we’ll be fine.
He's been so bad inside the arc
Because he’s terrified of falling on his wrist. If you want to attack the rim, you’ve got to do it without fear of physical consequences. I’m becoming convinced that there will not be a point this season where Moore feels confident enough to be the guy he was last year. If that’s the case, he has to be a better facilitator.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
His value was getting to the line...
I do not see that happening until his wrist is better and he goes back to effectively attacking the hoop
I hope Reg get this cleared up.
The mental side of things is what can separate a good player from a great player. If he keeps worrying about his wrist it might continue to affect his game (years) in the future.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
We attempted 26 threes last night.
In the bay area games, both losers attempted more than 25 and both winners attempted under 15. Now I am aware that we can make them, it just seems to me that we need to be trying more stuff inside or RUNNING PLAYS to get the ball down low. It seems like they will settle for a not so good shot early in the shot clock. I didn’t watch last nights game so I don’t know if man be they tried stuff inside and it didn’t work, but I just seems to me like we live and die by that shot.
"And here commmmmmmme the Buckeyyyyyyyyyes" ~Brent Musberger
by Coug999 on Jan 14, 2011 1:05 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I think that's a fair point.
The question is, how to get the ball inside? I’m not convinced dumping it in to Casto is the best idea, because it removes him as an offensive rebounding option. If he misses, it’s one and done. It’s got to be done through better ball movement and cuts, and that just doesn’t happen enough. The overtime was eerily reminiscent of last year in that regard — everyone was looking to Klay, and when he couldn’t get the shot off, there’s was no chance.
Casto and Simon scored our first 5 points of overtime
I’m not sure everyone was just waiting for Klay.
Although when somebody’s hot hand has 36 points including the dagger he hit with 20 seconds left, I’m ok with deferring to him.
It sounds like Montgomery thew out
A box-and-one defense in OT. We hadn’t seen it and were stymied. Klay couldn’t get open against it and looked gassed.
Yup
And at that point it’s incumbent on his teammates TO DO SOMETHING. They didn’t. At all. Lots of standing around.
There’s a difference between deferring and shirking responsibility. This was the latter.
I really wish Bone had used his time out
To make the adjustments and diagram something to work angainst that defense when it became obvious we were frozen. Big tip o’ the cap to Monty for the check mate, though.
Some games a coach might get out-coached,
but that doesn’t mean he is not a good coach. Monty got him this game. Good players get outplayed sometimes by other good players. Same things can happen with coaches. Bone should have called a timeout when he saw the box-in-one, because there is not enough time in OT to let them figure it out on the floor. H/T to Monty.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
No shame in getting outcoached by Monty.
Not sure there are any better bench coaches out there.
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Jan 14, 2011 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I like this team,
but I feel like there is just something missing. I don’t know if it is a Cowgill or a Rochestie or what. There is just a piece to the puzzle that is missing. I am not sure if it is a confident leader to go with KT or a big man that can score in the post. It is an intangible I that can’t exactly be described. I don’t feel a confidence when I watch this team. TR brought some swagger, that I felt good about. I am not saying it won’t come, but I haven’t seen/felt it yet. I think if Reg starts driving, dishing, finishing and getting to line I may feel better. I don’t think there is player Reg can’t shake out of their jock strap. He has the moves and talent.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
I think we're missing a leader
Klay is clearly by and far the best player, but not a leader. Moore needs to step up and lead.
I'm not sure I agree with this anymore
I starting to think what we have is actually a lack of followers. Klay’s focus and determination is admirable. What if everyone followed that lead? What if everyone worked that hard?
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 14, 2011 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
There are quiet leaders and influential leaders
Teammates with different personalities respond different to certain leaders. I liked quiet leaders…lead by example. Some need the loud leader like Reggie White or Ray Lewis.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Yup
Guys like Lodwick are following Thompson’s lead. I thought Moore was that kind of guy, but it doesn’t look like it this year. I’m not sure about the rest of them, but they’re not buying in right now.
I think Lodwick also learned a lot from
the previous regime. Harmeling was a hard worker and Lodwick is following that lead. I hear they are good friends. Low, TR, Weaver, Cowgill, Harmeling were hard working in the weight room and gym rats. I have heard KT and Lodwick are like that.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
I meant to put this down here.
And it kind of goes with Nuss and his deferring and shirking reponsibility
Bone inherited most of this. This team has gone from a defense first makeup to offense first. That was Bennett ball and that’s fine. Having watched Bone’s teams for 15 years or so I don’t get the impression that these are all his type players.
The first thing that comes to mind is high basketball IQ. His teams never beat themselves and actually the opposite. They would put teams in positions to beat themselves. One play in particular comes to mind and I remember chirping (I was rooting for CWU) about it to him after the game as he was leaving the court and all he did was point at the scoreboard and ask what it said. But his teams were all very fundementally sound. They played a good inside/out game with a fair amount of 3’s.
I tend to agree this team is not quite "there" yet. The funny thing about sports especially with young kids is they could catch fire and virtually win out. Especially with the level of competition in the pac.
Like Wulff, I give Bone a pass till he get’s a recruiting cycle through.
Go Cougs
I also think that the recruits per year has been a little messed up.
KT’s class had a lot of players come in that year. I think it was 6…KT, Casto, Capers, Watson, Harthun and Witherill. It is starting to even out, but for a little while the recruiting number were messed up, but Bone is getting it clear up.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
People also need to remember that it takes YEARS to make inroads in basketball
He’s recruiting completely different kinds of players than what he was at PSU. Some coaches can show up and recruit great immediately, but they’ve usually got something else about their university to sell. WSU just doesn’t. The next recruiting class is when I hope to see some breakthrough on this front.
There was basically a full roster when he got here and he hasn't had that much room to add full classes.
And he doesn’t really this year, either.
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Jan 14, 2011 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
I have been thinking about that.
Bone has a melting pot of players. Some of his, some of Tony’s and some of Ben’s. DKD and Motum are Ben’s…I think he influenced Bone on those guys. I still think Simon is Tony’s, he was committed and Bone figured a 4-star 6’-10" shooter, why not? I think Bjornstad was a last minute big guy grab. Bone was just trying to get a recruiting class together quickly. I am curious how Dilorio will turn out, I think he is a talented walk on. Do you think Bone went after Ladd? I don’t think Ladd is going to play under scholarship. From what I heard he wanted to come back closer to home and also play with Reg. I agree I think it will take a few years until Bone has his players, system and program where he wants it. Bone has coached a lot and still is a young coach; both good things.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
I think a big point is
That the most of the players Bone has brought in have been commits in the late period after spots opened up. So the pool he’s recruiting from is not that big, but if he has a spot and he thinks the player could eventually contribute, then why not give them a shot? The ‘12 class will be his first true class that he’s able to build. It will be exciting to see what he comes up with. Also, he said in an interview somewhere that Ladd is definitely in line for a scholarship.
Interesting thought on Simon you bring up
Yeah he was an earlier signee but he will probably do well in Bone’s systems. Seems to have good court sense for a young guy. Maybe worry about his foot speed a little.
I like Simon
but I have to disagree with you here. I think he has a great shot and great confidence in that shot, but I think court sense is where he lacks. If he’s not spotting up for a catch-and-shoot, he seems lost to me. It’s even worse on the defensive end.
Then again, I don’t claim to be a basketball guru, so maybe I’m seeing the wrong things.
He's also a freshman.
His current “court sense” might have something to do with that.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 15, 2011 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
I don't like the excuse that
you can’t recruit to Pullman. Obviously it has a special place in all of our hearts, we visited the campus as high schoolers and said this is the place for me. The coach’s just need to figure out how to sell what is so special about it. That is one reason I still support Wulff, he is bring young talent from states like Florida all the way to Pullman. Price could recruit here, Bennett could, and if guys can build programs in places like Blacksburg, Corvallis, and Starkville they can sure do it here.
"Win or lose Cougars booze!"
by foreveracoug on Jan 14, 2011 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
"but they’ve usually got something else about their university to sell. WSU just doesn’t"
Seems to me like you were implying it, perhaps I read into the wrong way.
"Win or lose Cougars booze!"
by foreveracoug on Jan 15, 2011 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
We have decades of history with a dozen coaches that prove that it's harder for us to get great players to Pullman
If you want to discard that because we all love our school and think recruits should too, that’s fine. But I don’t think that’s realistic.
Just about every other school in the conference has inherent recruiting advantages we don’t have. About the only two schools you can draw a comparison to for us are Oregon State and Arizona. OSU continues to be bad, while Arizona was awful until Lute arrived. Maybe Ken Bone is our Lute Olson. We’ll see. But he’s going to need time to prove it.
I learned something new today, after being here for years.
I have never used the up button and have never thought of using it…didn’t really care what it was. Man it really helps knowing who replied to who on a long thread. Click on it and it takes you to who the reply was intended.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Thanks SoCal
Wife usually slaps the hand when I go to use the computer. Have to sneak comments on when she’s not looking.
Stanford
We’ll beat Stanford and head home 3-3 in the Pac-10. Not what we hoped for and it puts pressure on us to win 2-3 against the Arizona schools and the Dawgs.
I thought Cal was the much more winnable of the two coming in
If Stanford held UW under 60, they are really going to give us fits. Could easily be Butler redux.
Butler did kill Stanford earlier this season.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Butler beat Stanford by 33 pts.
WSU lost to Butler by 16 pts.
So therefore, we will beat Stanford by precisely 17 pts.
FTW
by cfred on Jan 15, 2011 1:04 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Logical, clear and concise.
I’m completely on board for that result.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
The Butler Theory.
Never fails. Ever.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust
Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 15, 2011 2:08 PM PST up reply actions
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