WSU Vs. ASU: Cougs Fall To Sun Devils, 71-69
by Grady Clapp on Feb 19, 2011 5:47 PM PST
in 2011-2012 WSU Basketball News
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There are a couple ways to handle today's loss - freak out, or step back and look at the big picture.
Both are acceptable, as far as I'm concerned. Although I'm legally obligated to tell you to avoid killing yourself. WSU lost to the last place team in the Pac-10. A team that had lost 11 straight conference games and was playing without arguably their best player in Ty Abbott. Like a lot of you probably did, I felt lower about this team after the game than I have at any other time this season.
But let me play devil's advocate for a second... Why did we think this year's team was going to be so great to begin with? Klay Thompson will play at the next level, and he's great, but he's not Kobe Bryant. He's not going to drain every three he takes in the final minutes. The rest of this team is young, thin and a mismatch of personnel designed for one style of play (Bennett) versus another (Bone).
Tonight, this team played a walk-on freshman for 20 minutes. I'm not slighting Will DiIorio - he's good... just making the point that this team has such little depth that they had to rely on him, as well as 3 minutes from another true freshman (Dre Winston Jr.) just because of one injury to Faisal Aden. Doesn't that say a lot about where the program is right now?
Yes, free throws were a problem. Yes, I have no idea why Ken Bone didn't single out anyone else besides Trent Lockett to foul in the final minutes. And yes, if I were Ken Bone I would want to lock this team in Smith Gym for the remainder of the weekend and make them do nothing but shoot free throws.
But we know they practice free throws (how much may be up for debate... but even Lorenzo Romar has said too much emphasis on FT shooting can cause it to be even more of a mental issue for the players). We know that Klay Thompson is the number one option on last second plays. But if Abe's shot goes in, we're talking about one of the greatest games in WSU history, instead of a bad loss. That's life.
The Cougs are 5th in the Pac-10 right now. Exactly where they were predicted to finish. Maybe we just drank the kool-aid way too soon.
Player of the Game: Klay Thompson
Right Hand Man: DeAngelo Casto
Unsung Hero?: Abe Lodwick
Play of the Game: I only had radio, so I'll go with the Abe three to put us up one after the frantic second half comeback.
It was over when... Abe's three rimmed out with time expiring.
Stat of the Game: Choose your own depressing free throw stat.
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I appreciate your positive outlook.
This loss was more embarrassing than our loss to Oregon. ASU is bad and had 2 of their top 3 players out. The first recap I read talked about the “sluggish” start we had. If you were to go back and look at all of the post game articles from this season, there would be two recurring themes, “sluggish” effort and “inconsistent” play. Sorry, the number of times we haven’t shown up against mediocre to poor teams is inexcusable. There is no sense of urgency in this team. I will be very surprised if we win another game this season. This is the best time of year to watch college basketball. Many “bubble” teams are playing hard in an effort to get to the big dance, while other “bubble” teams are sacking up the bats.
I'm a much bigger St. John's fan right now because of how they're playing
especially when they need to the most.
say what you want...but
this group of players has not done squat. it’s dissapointing because they flash potential against lesser competition and talk a big game, but at this point they just are not there yet. as much as we want to blame bone, it just is not fair at this point. give him time to get his players and run his system. he has been up front about this team from the start, it has been us fans and the players that put up these high expectations.
by bson25 on Feb 19, 2011 6:38 PM PST via mobile reply actions
I agree that the bar may have been set too high
but to have to come back from being down 12 at half time, and 16 early in the second half to the last place Pac-10 is ridiculous.
Referees
For PAC-10 Refs these guys seemed to on top of of things. They didn’t make too stupid of calls.
by luciuswolfey_96 on Feb 19, 2011 6:44 PM PST reply actions
Definitely cannot blame the refs for this one
What goes up must come down.
Sorry Duck fans
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Feb 19, 2011 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
Interesting observation ...
… I have to say, I was saying the same thing to myself after the UW / UA game. Nice to see the refs string together a few good games.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
we are washington state
it is always uphill in pullman, but even though we did not win, we should never be defeated. cheer our team as brothers until the last buzzer. always proud to be a coug
I fear that Bone is going to get an unfair shake
because of the youth of the team. I know there have been some rabbles and murmurs of dissatisfaction with him, but I think we can generally dismiss those as frustration and dashed hopes rather than real lack of support.
However, I think that at season’s end and especially right off the bat next season, Bone will be facing a lot of pressure even though (like you mentioned) hardly any of the contributors on the team are “his guys”. Next year will likely be the same (assuming Klay stays). I know I often forget that these aren’t his players just because they were all so young when Bone was hired. This is likely a better thought to discuss after the season or next year but I have a bad feeling about it.
Youth of this team?
With the exception of Reggie Moore all of our major contributors are juniors.
Attractive, Intelligent Reader
The youth of this team excuse is long past.
Not much of a difference between juniors and seniors, especially when Casto/Capers/Thompson were all starters last year.
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Feb 20, 2011 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not talking about the youth as an excuse
My point was that Bone inherited a team full of freshman and sophomores; a strange situation for a new coach to come into, especially when his style is so different from the style of the previous coach. Because of the youth of this team, many of us forget that these are still mostly “Bennett Ball” players – not Bone’s. There’s a certain amount of development that should take place, of course, but these still aren’t Bone’s recruits and he hasn’t had much space to plug in his own guys. I just don’t want Bone to face unfair pressure when he’s being expected to win with players that he didn’t recruit. That’s not to say we can’t have expectations, but I think as fans we need to maintain perspective as well.
Does anybody else find it a little wrong that...
all of our key contributors were at Mike’s bar partying it up Saturday night when they got back in town? I mean I know my slogan is “win or lose cougars booze” but I feel this applies much more to the fans than players. My own competitive nature would not lead me to go out partying after such an embarrassing loss.
"Win or lose Cougars booze!"
No. I don't care.
You have Thompson afterward so upset he came this close to tears during the post-game interview. There’s no doubt these guys want to win, but they just haven’t figured out how to bring it for 40 minutes every night and I’m not sure anyone connected to the program – including you guys – know why.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
Grippi
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
by Brian Floyd on Feb 20, 2011 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
He also explained why Klay was forced to sit to start
Or that Klay Thompson, usually the first one in the gym, would lose his I-pod and then be late for the bus?
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
by Brian Floyd on Feb 20, 2011 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
I don't care at all.
As long as it is not the night before a game. These are college students. Do you want them home all night crying over the loss? They had 2-3 bus rides and a plane flight to think about it.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
If True, It's a Problem
I have heard multiple people give personal accounts of seeing our players out after midnight when we play the next morning at noon Arizona time. Where is the curfew? What about a bed check? Why would a coach let them be out that late? I think I would still have a problem with this if it was a late game but if true, it is unacceptable for a noon start. I don’t see why any Coug in Tempe would make this up so I find it concerning at the very least.
I know I would NEVER...
… Go to a bar after a rough day at work. How dare these guys cope with their frustration in a way that has no negative effect on their future performance.
by Pman on Feb 20, 2011 8:33 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
It was friday night
If I’m not mistaken the people have said they were out on Friday night before the game. Not yesterday after the game. It would be fine for them to have drinks in Pullman last night after they got home. It’s not fine if they were out past midnight the night before a noon game.
I've heard this rumor more than once this year.
And, honestly, I just don’t buy it.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
That's Fair Brian
That’s a fair way to look at it Brian. I just don’t know what motive anyone would have to lie about seeing them at the bar.
I saw Casto at Taco Bell once.
So obviously he has just given up trying. :)
Attractive, Intelligent Reader
I was in Tempe for the game...
And was out on Mill Ave (the main strip) Friday night and didn’t see any of them in any of the main bars or clubs. Not to say it didn’t happen, but I didn’t see it.
I don't know what the motivation would be
But these rumors always pop up, no matter the team. I don’t know why they do, but I just don’t buy it.
If you’re looking for framing, I always used to see the Bennett teams out, too, whether it was a win or loss. It’s college.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
I wasn't trying to start any rumors
looking back on it I probably shouldn’t have made that post because it really isn’t a big deal. I was just still a little bummed about the loss. Sorry.
"Win or lose Cougars booze!"
by foreveracoug on Feb 20, 2011 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Wasn't talking about yours
And, really, I don’t care if they’re out on a Saturday night. They don’t play again til next Sunday. We were talking about rumors players were out before games, which I just don’t buy.
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
by Brian Floyd on Feb 20, 2011 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
A couple of close friends and Coug alumns visited Pullman last weekend
and posted on Facebook Friday night before the Cal game that they just took a shot with Marcus Capers. They aren’t the type to lie about something like that either. We’re only talking about one player, but still… disappointing to say the least.
I seriously can't believe this is what it's come to
Rumors about where a player was or was not before or after a game. Give me a break. Not to be the comment police, but c’mon people — we’re better than this here at CougCenter. Knock it off.
I don't think anyone is implying that they know with absolute certainty how to run a kid's life.
But if the team has curfew rules, I’m guessing that stems from coaches wanting players to be well rested before a game. And I realize from your perspective it’s just a rumor that, for example, Capers was out at the bar getting drunk past midnight with a game the next day, but from my perspective it’s pretty close to a fact because I trust my friends who were there and witnessed it.
I apologize if it wasn’t in the spirit of the type of discussion you want here at CougCenter, but after Brian made the comment that he didn’t buy the rumors about players being out at night before games, I felt I would offer up some more anecdotal evidence. This team has other issues to worry about though, so I’ll leave it at that.
"from my perspective it’s pretty close to a fact because I trust my friends who were there and witnessed it."
Good for you. But I don’t know you or your friends, and neither does anyone else here. We hear lots of rumors from people we trust, too. Doesn’t mean we run around writing about it.
Thanks for understanding.
That's true, but this is the internet, and in most cases you aren't going to know the people participating in the discussion.
I’ve been reading this site since it was started and it’s my go-to-source for everything relating to WSU athletics, but I’m a little bothered by this hyper-skepticism. Should I provide my wsu.edu email address to give my voice credibility? Hell, maybe I should just post a picture of my diploma. I wasn’t the only person to bring up the notion that certain players have been witnessed being out late the night before a game, so doesn’t that alone give some credence to it? It’s not like it’s an outrageous claim to make. A player, spending Friday night partying with his friends? Impossible! Pics or it didn’t happen!
And if you're "a little bothered by this hyper-skepticism"
There’s any easy solution for you. They’ll be happy to entertain your rumors.
I know you guys have squashed this topic, but I was out on Mill Ave on Friday night before the game and I TALKED to Casto at 12:45 a.m. outside Mill Cue Club. He wasn’t drinking, but being out at almost 1 a.m. the night before a noon game says a lot about his commitment.
by Jimmy_Mac on Feb 20, 2011 3:28 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
The point isn't whether you talked to him.
The point is whether it’s a topic worthy of debate. It’s not. The players are people who can decide how best to live their lives, and the coaches are responsible for the curfew. We are simply not going to sit here in judgment of someone’s sleeping habits. You want to do that, find another forum.
It’s not a debate about whether I talked to him, nor is it a debate about sleeping habits. It’s the fact there is a curfew and it is being disobeyed by players and not enforced by the coaching staff. I think it’s a very fair point to make given the performance of the team, especially in the first half. No, it’s not a statistic, but there aren’t always statistics to explain the reasons a team is playing well or playing poorly.
by Jimmy_Mac on Feb 20, 2011 4:03 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
How do you know there's a curfew not being enforced?
This is why we’re not going to entertain this discussion. You really don’t know anything about the inner workings of the team.
This is ridiculous.
Now we are talking about bed times and performance. I don’t think there are stats on this. Who cares about this? This is why TMZ makes money, stupid things like this. I played in college and we had curfews, but we still stayed up late in our rooms messing around and pranking other teammates. Is Bone going to go to each room and checking on them every hour of the night? No. Some people are night owls, some are not. Most of the time it doesn’t affect performance (from my experience). I played well on little sleep, when I slept to much I was groggy and couldn’t get going. This is all a Moot point. You think Olympic athletes get a lot of sleep before an event? Probably not, busy thinking about everything.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
I saw Brock Motum buying weapons grade plutonium at 3 AM the night before a noon game
I saw him, with my own two eyes! I think the fact that he would want to buy enough plutonium to blow up a small town that late at night before a game says a lot about his lack of commitment… Also, it explains why he is desperately wanted by the FBI.
These kinds of things are ridiculous. I have not been at this school for long and I have heard at least half a dozen VERY interesting rumors (I heard an extremely interesting one about Klay Thompson just the other day). I keep those to myself, and my friends, but I never mention them on here, on Twitter, or anywhere where I could even have a chance of being taken seriously. Even if you see something doesn’t mean you know the whole story and it certainly doesn’t mean you know “how committed” someone is.
Cougar Basketball 2010-2011: *But Wait... There's Moore!*
SBNation Seattle Contributer -- WSU Daily Evergreen Newspaper columnist -- Twitter: @JeffdCollier
These stories remind me of a rumor I heard in the mid- to late-90's
“Sean Kemp had 8 Long Island Ice Teas at the Keg during the NBA Finals.”
Yeah, OK. So, this was the reason we lost, not the fact that Rodman was owning the glass or that Sam Perkins and Hersey Hawkins couldn’t buy a 3.
It's was SATURDAY night & IN PULLMAN
People saw them at Mike’s in Adam’s mall. They DO have a curfew on the road & it’s stricktly enforced. And it’s before midnight. I’ve seen them have to head home by 10:30 on some trips and that was for later starts than noon.
Sure we're in 5th place today.....
But where will we be in two weeks when we drop two of final three or even all of the remaining games. We very well may “play” ourselves into the dreaded Wednesday night Pac-10 tourney games.
More concerning, where will this team be next year w/o KT. Take a good look at ASU and you’ll get the picture.
I'm reacting...but I don't think I'm "over-reacting".
Losses to UCLA and UW could very well drop us into Wednesday night Pac-10 tourney games.
I think these next three games are going to be an incredible challenge
It’s sort of like a 3 game season now.
I feel like Charlie Brown trying to kick the football. Ugh
A 3 game season where even if we go undeafeted, we are still unlikely to make the tourney
Cougar Basketball 2010-2011: *But Wait... There's Moore!*
SBNation Seattle Contributer -- WSU Daily Evergreen Newspaper columnist -- Twitter: @JeffdCollier
But there's another three-game season which can ensure WSU makes the tourney...
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
How do you not give D-Oreo some love!
In my book he is the unsung hero way before Lodwick. If for some reason that final shot went in I’d agree with you. But D-Oreo was the spark for this club in Tempe
What goes up must come down.
Sorry Duck fans
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Feb 20, 2011 8:23 AM PST reply actions
He also had some turnovers and missed a lay up at a key juncture
not to diminish what he did the rest of the time and those are the risks associated with playing a walk-on. Possibly why he wasn’t mentioned.
He had one turnover
He also had 4 rebounds, 3 assists (to share the team lead), 2 steals, 5 deflections, and took 3 charges in 20 minutes of play.
As a compairison; Thompson had 3 assists while taking 28 shots.
I think he did good
but did miss 2 important FTs.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
and a wide open layup
by BigWood! on Feb 20, 2011 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Thats right, I already forgot about that.
He was a spark, but I wish that spark would have made 2 FTs and a wide open layup, things might have been different.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Our Zone-Sombody Help Me Out
I had to work yesterday and only got to listen to the game but I hope you guys that saw the game can answer something for me.
When we played ASU at home, I was livid at our horrible zone defense. We gave them repeated open looks from three like our strategy was to let them shoot and hope they miss. It was not the same zone that we played in Hawaii or even later that Saturday against UA. We finally switched to man about 4 minutes into the second half and then took control from there on out. I remember thinking that the only way ASU could beat us was to get hot from three and I didn’t like the zone strategy.
Fast forward to yesterday. From what I’m hearing we played Zone the whole first half? And we again gave up repeated open looks? Before finally switching to man in the 2nd half and making a run? Why would Bone after what happened in the first game against ASU repeat the same poor strategy in yesterdays game. He said after the first game that the zone wasn’t working and we had to switch to man. Paraphrasing his quote but it was something similar. I don’t understand it at all. Hoping a team misses just because they have shot a poor percentage previously is not a strategy.
ASU does not have the players to beat us if we play man and get up in their grill especially without Abbot and Kuksiks. The only way they can beat us is to make threes and we let them do It?
Somebody fill me in, please!
Not trying to ignore you
I just didn’t get to watch the game.
by Jeff Nusser on Feb 20, 2011 10:28 PM PST up reply actions
I think we set the bar too high because of our non-con success
I believe K-State was ranked #5 when we lost to them narrowly at home, then we beat recently ranked Gonzaga and #15 Baylor. Losing to National Runner-Up Butler didn’t seem so bad and we could justify losing the LA road trip pretty easily too. Except for UCLA, none of those teams has been anywhere close to as good as advertised.
I think I can now move on to accept this team for what it is. We are an NIT team plain and simple. We are capable of playing with the best and of losing to the worst. We’ll likely finish around .500 in conference, good for middle-of-the-pack standing and we’ll probably avoid playing the first day in the tournament. We are capable of going on a good run and winning the Pac-10 tournament but we could just as likely lose to USC the first day. Wherever we end up in the postseason, I will enjoy watching Klay and Casto do their thing and hope our team can make some free throws. Go Cougs!
"I mean I was like, okay, there you go, you wanna hit me? There you go, one pitch for you. You don't get it? You have no chance." ~ Felix Hernandez
After watching this game in person...
I was disappointed, and not just because we lost. I felt like we just played sloppy ball. You can tell that ASU came to win. Every defensive possession they were on then man and applying pressure. Add that to the offense being slow out of the gate and we’re down by a good number. On the other side of the ball the Cougs looked lost in the zone. We constantly left the wings open and ASU made us pay for it. Also, for 3/4 of this game it almost felt like a neutral court. The ASU student section was nonexistent (I’m being 100% serious when I say that there were more cheerleaders than students) and there was a very healthy showing from Coug fans.
The below picture (sorry, quality isn’t great…did what i could from the stands) shows something I saw on more than one occasion, a Cougs drives but instead of kicking it to the open man (in this case Abe) they take the shot.
Just looking at this picture, the entire ASU team has collapsed to pack the lane. Why take that shot (more or less guaranteeing no rebound if its missed) when with one more pass you have an open one?
Also, my take on the game winning losing shot.
When that shot hit the rim there was an audible sigh. It was gut wrenching to be that close and then to watch the shot clang out and Abe lose it.
Motum looks like he has a nice 12 footer
Not sure why he’d pass up that look (although his footwork looks odd if that is indeed Brock). Someone making a 12 footer sure would open up the outside later in the game.
That shot is completely open.
No basketball player in the world worries about rebounding coverage on a 12’ jumper.
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Feb 20, 2011 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I definitely see your point
It is indeed Brock, and it wasn’t so much a traditional 12 foot jump shot as it was a floater hybrid. That being said, the picture was more of an example of something I noticed during our drought toward the end of the game. Though, even then I would have felt safer with the ball in the hands of someone shooting above 33% when the game is on the line, and at that specific point Abe was 3 of 4 from long.
Win?
If the Cougs can’t ever win on Thursday’s and now we can’t win on Saturday’s, when can we win? How can we expect to go to the any tournament and win.
by luciuswolfey_96 on Feb 20, 2011 9:53 AM PST reply actions
Confused by the chart
Am I the only one confused about how WSU lost 18 points over a 40 second span to close out the half according to the chart? (insert Husky joke here)
Bringing Purple to Pullman
by Harry the Husky on Feb 20, 2011 6:28 PM PST reply actions
Statsheet acting a fool.
This isn’t even the weirdest error I’ve seen, but it’s close … and I didn’t notice it until you said something.
It took 66 comments for someone to notice!
CougCenter, SBNation Seattle, @FloydCoug
Night Editor - SBNation.com
By the way
Those four factors graphs are a perfect example of how shooting always trumps everything. Period.
I was just shaking my head
when I saw ASU at 60.6 and WSU at 48.2.
"Yaka Fest from outside for Klay Thompson" – Marques Johnson
Looks to me like a '2' was replaced by a '4' somewhere in the script.
Making 26 points appear to actually be 46 points for the Cougars.
Shocked
It will be interesting to see how the Cougs rebound from this loss next week.
by luciuswolfey_96 on Feb 20, 2011 9:21 PM PST reply actions
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