A Very Simple Explanation For WSU's Terrible Defense
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 12, 2012 7:42 PM PST
in 2011-2012 WSU Basketball News
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PrintFans have complained about WSU's defense to one degree or another ever since Ken Bone's arrival in Pullman 2 1/2 years ago.
I always felt like the criticisms were at least somewhat unfair because Bone's Cougars were being held up to an impossible standard; after ranking 77th nationally in adjusted defensive efficiency in Dick Bennett's first season, the next five teams never ranked lower than 19th. WSU fans expected every team to be able to do that under any coach, but it's just not realistic -- I honestly can't find another coach that puts together elite defenses like the Bennetts year after year at a non-elite program.*
*The two closest examples I could find are Kevin O'Neill and Frank Martin, but O'Neill doesn't have the same kind of history Bennett did and Martin's teams at Kansas State have been fixtures in the top 25 for years now. Point is, it's incredibly rare, if not outright unique; you might also consider that Virginia was ranked lower in adjusted defensive efficiency than WSU last year.
The truth is, last season's defense was more than adequate, ranking 46th in adjusted defensive efficiency. Teams who ranked lower than that defensively who received at-large bids to the NCAA tournament include George Mason, Tennessee, Washington, Villanova, Wisconsin, Georgetown, Xavier, Penn State, Marquette, Missouri, Notre Dame and Arizona.
No, they weren't playing Bennett-level defense. But that clearly wasn't what was holding last year's team back; it was the offense, which ranked 89th in adjusted offensive efficiency and only sixth in the Pac-10 in conference play. Because of that, I found some fans' incessant whining about the state of the defense and its role in WSU missing out on an at-large bid to lack proper nuance.
Unfortunately, there is no such lack of nuance this year. The defense really does stink: Through four Pac-12 games, against just one team in the top half of the conference in adjusted offensive efficiency, the Cougs have allowed a miserable 1.13 points per possession, and are ranked 155th in adjusted defensive efficiency.
No matter what you think about Bone's defensive strategies -- and I'd rank playing a 2-3 zone for 30 minutes against Colorado as one of the worst coaching decisions I've ever seen, something I deconstructed in Cougar Sports Weekly on Monday -- I believe the explanation isn't even that complex: Departed starters DeAngelo Casto and Klay Thompson, who have not been adequately replaced, covered a multitude of sins defensively that are now being exposed.
When comparing last year and this year, a few things stick out.
First and foremost, the Cougars are allowing a higher percentage on twos. If you can't defend your paint, you've really got nothing as a defense. Last year, the Cougars were second in the Pac-12 in two-point percentage against; right now they're 12th, and have dropped from 77th nationally to 151st.
This is where the departure of Casto, one of the most gifted shot blockers ever to play at WSU, is felt. The Cougars' block percentage is all the way down to 7.4 percent (238th) from 11 percent (70th) a year ago, and as Casto got better at knowing when to aggressively pursue a shot he could actually get and hang back on the ones he couldn't, his mere presence caused many offensive players to change their shots.
But don't discount the loss of Thompson, as well. Klay ranked in the top 20 percent nationally in block percentage -- higher than the Cougars' more heralded defensive guard, Marcus Capers (3.1 to 2.4). He also was second on the team in steal percentage, so it's no surprise that the Cougs are forcing fewer turnovers.
All told, Klay Thompson was a much better defender than most people gave him credit for, and that shows up in the two-point percentage and the three-point percentage, which also is significantly worse this year. Thompson was great at playing that corner wing spot in the 2-3, using his length to bother a lot of perimeter shots.
Under Dick and Tony Bennett, we got used to defense having a plug-and-play quality. That's clearly not the case under Bone, as this coaching staff has failed to adequately replace the production of both Casto and Thompson through either personnel or scheme.
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If you can't defend your paint, you've really got nothing as a defense.
I’ll take note of that.
If My Life Is Great, Why Am I Not Happy?
by well you win some and lose others on Jan 12, 2012 8:09 PM PST reply actions
Thanks to Jeff for pointing out what should be obvious
I am tired of the Bone this, Bone that talk. You either have the players that can make the plays or you don’t. We are just a team with two fewer pro players this year than last..
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
Yes and no.
This is the key line:
(T)his coaching staff has failed to adequately replace the production of both Casto and Thompson through either personnel or scheme.
The inability to get any defensive improvement out of Moore, Aden, etc. through either development or scheme is on the coach. The losses of Casto and Thompson are huge, but I do lay some of this at Bone’s feet, too.
I have to say
the one thing a coach can teach is defense. I hate to go here and talk about the Bennetts, but the Bennetts got players with less talent to be good defenders or work hard in their defensive scheme. Players make plays on the offense and coaches set up the defense. I feel sometimes that offense is talent and that defense can be developed or worked at. Jordan was not a good defender when he came into the league and became of the of best defenders. No one ever puts as much time into defense as they do offense. In the off-season players work on their offense by taking jump shots everyday, in the off-season they don’t work on defensive stances, steals, shot blocks and defensive movements every day. I feel most players can turn into good defensive players if they want to.
I also don’t think Bone has his defensive scheme figured out yet. Early on he tried the pack defense since he still had B.Johnson on staff, then he went to zone, now I am not sure what is his staple defensive philosophy. If he had the players to run it, I think it would be similar to UW’s defense.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
"now I am not sure what is his staple defensive philosophy."
Believe me, this is on my list of things to eventually write about.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
I figured a coach that has coached this long
would have come in and implemented his defense right away. He didn’t. I don’t know if he was afraid to change the culture and what everybody loved about the Bennetts or what. I think he was a little insecure and probably should have gone with his gut and change everything. I think he was afraid to clean house and change everything after a successful coach was here. I think there was underlining, unspoken feeling about not changing the culture. Also, keeping Ben Johnson was probably strange. He had a guy that knew the pack defense, so he tried to keep it going. It obviously didn’t work. As we have seen with Leach he has come in cleaned house and implementing everything he believes in. Leach also has the luxury of coming in after an unsuccessful coach, Bone didn’t. I think Bone inherited a tougher situation than any fan can understand. At PSU Bone didn’t have to follow in the footsteps of a living legend a complete different situation. The Bennetts became living legends while they were here, because WSU basketball hadn’t seen anything them.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
If it was a mistake in year one
Why is he still doing the same thing in year three? That’s my question.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
It causes him to lose his swag.
Doesn’t know what to implement now. I kind of want to see him revamp for next year.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
honestly, I think some of our players just lack motivation on the defensive side of the court
Those guys, particularly the ones you mentioned, were not recruited or broguht in for their defensive ability so its not part of their identity and I don’t feel like they really place much importance to what they do on the defensive side of the ball. And so, yeah, the coach could do more in establishing defense as part of their identity or use it as a strong incentive for minutes. Reggie didn’t start at Colorado but Bone said that was for offensive reasons. Aden’s minutes are supposeldy tied to his “basket making.” So I may agree with you that motivation needs to come from the coach in the way of minutes.
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
I've already seen way too many of these discussions and I hate to join but this is way oversimplifying Thames leaving.
Think about all the minutes Aden’s received the past 2 seasons, almost every single one of them would’ve gone to a guy like Thames had he stuck around. Did he get a fair shot his freshman year? No, I don’t think so at all. But, at the same time everyone talks about how great Reggie was as a freshman and how we wish that guy was back right? Bone missed a HUGE chance to make Reggie, and the team, more accountable on (and off?) the court that hurts the team to this day.
The guy whose minutes X should have been taking as a freshman was Capers if Bone only values player’s offensive play. Capers couldn’t do anything on offense then, and he still can’t now. Lodwick has never been a consistent offensive threat, yet his defensive and rebounding tenacity is generally applauded and he has played plenty his entire career.
Do I think Bone generally values offense over defense? Yes, but not always. I’m not going to even try and understand what he’s doing, it doesn’t make any sense to me. My guess is that this has been a frustrating experience for him as a coach.
I think we’ve seen “Bone-ball” against Eastern, Santa Clara, and to some extent Idaho. In previous years I can also think of the Gonzaga game, 3/4 of Baylor last season, 2/3 of Zona game in Pullman, and both regular season UW games. In those games the team moved the ball well, earned open shots (and made them), played decent defense, and just looked like a cohesive team. It must drive the coaching staff insane that they haven’t figured out how to get the team to look like that consistently. Xavier Thames would’ve fit that kind of system to a T and it’s a shame for us that he left. But, he left because he wanted to leave. He played 10-15 minutes a game as a freshman, which isn’t bad and would’ve increased had he stuck around.
Romanticizing about Thames is as old to me as hearing people wax poetic about Bennett teams. He left, it was his choice, best of luck to him.
Apologies, rant about X leaving also turned into rant on general frustration’s with Bone et al. I’ve never been less excited to see WSU play uw since I started watching Cougar basketball in 2005, just frustrated along with everyone else. Ugh.
Thames got plenty of minutes
So doesn’t it stand to reason that there was another reason why he wanted out of the program?
The Thames argument was always that Bone picked Reggie over him was it not?
I didn’t realize he had the 6th most minutes, that blows up 90% of the arguments faulting Bone for Thames leaving. Can’t be that he only favors players with good offensive games (as described above).
I’m not sure I know where you’re going now. Thames knew this staff wouldn’t be successful and jumped off the sinking ship? He knew the chemistry would be that terrible?
Seems that a guy like Thames would’ve helped stabilize things a lot the past 2 seasons.
Bone did not overtly "pick Reggie"
Thames came to WSU to play a certain style — one where smart decisions and defense were valued, and players were held accountable for breakdowns in those areas. Thames saw that those were not Ken Bone’s highest priorities, noted that accountability was scant in those areas, realized he was never going overtake Reggie Moore as the apple of Ken Bone’s eye, and decided he’d be a better fit somewhere else. There were no hard feelings, as far as I know.
I am just curious.
Is this hearsay or a educated assumption about Thames? Is this something you figured out after seeing/hearing all the information? I never heard anything out of Thames mouth about this. I thought is was interesting how quickly he found SDSU…I think something was in the works for a while. It was weird how it unfolded.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
This comes from a gathering of information from a lot of different sources
Including people close to the program. But there are also inferences you can draw from his initial “decommit” after Bone was hired, how he was used by Bone on the floor, his quick transfer to SDSU, the fact that he picked a program with SDSU’s style, the kind of coach at SDSU, etc.
Two problems with that statement
1. The game is on Sunday.
2. I think that we are going to show up and play.
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
Outsiders always commented that Klay needed to improve his defense
and I have heard the same statements since Klay’s been in the NBA. It’s obvious that opposing teams buy this but when Klay is one-on-one his man often passes after a failed attempt at penetration. Point being that Klay was a very good defender.
by Couginthepink on Jan 12, 2012 10:22 PM PST via Android app reply actions
From a Cougfan.com poster,
one who’s usually got really good observations on the program.
Linky poo (this is on the free board, but you do have to set up an account to read it)
Relevant quote:
The zone D’ is very lazy, with certain guys constantly standing in no man’s land. Even in man (I’m thinking he means “zone” here -TR) every person should be guarding someone to some degree, even if you are on the off-ball side of the guard. You have to be able to react to the skip pass and/or be helping on someone inside. We’re not seeing it. Players are in no mans land, so when a skip pass goes to their side they’re too late to recover and/or they’re to far off someone in the key to do any good. It’s horrible, unless certain players are on the court.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
SDCoug always has great basketball analysis.
He’s always been down on Moore. This quote speaks volumes to me (although I’m not sure ‘attitudinally’ is even a word haha):
“Attitudinally, some kids just don’t buy into the team concept.”
The best coach in the world can’t teach that if a player won’t decide on their own to do it. So many things have gone wrong for the Cougs under Bone, the least of which has been talent. The person at the top is ultimately responsible.
My biggest peeve with this year's team, whether they win the game or not, is how much standing around guys seem to do.
The other team I watch a lot of is Gonzaga. Every possession I see Pargos or Stockton take the ball up the court and set up the offense, like there’s an actual plan of how to get the ball in the basket. And guys away from the ball are ALWAYS moving. Same on defense. They aren’t always successful in scoring points and sometimes they flat out get beat by their guy on the defensive end, but as a team it looks like they’re all on the same page and know what their roles are. I only see that with the Cougs part of the time, which is frustrating because it seems like they burn a lot of opportunities to score.
Agree with all of this.
We’ve seen a handful of games each season Bone coaches where the team really seems to “get it.” Almost every other game we seem to have very little flow or offensive gameplan. It’s just not fun bball to watch.
It also takes more than 1 or 2 talented offensive players
to run a successful offense. It is hard to execute a plan when it can’t be executed. I don’t know if any coaches offense would look successful here, right now. Mayyyybe the Princeton offense?
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
I thought this was a post about Thames?
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
by SoCalCoug on Jan 13, 2012 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
I think it is more forgiveable in basketball since players play both sides of the ball
It’s not like this was one of Mark’s threads on our receivers and you posted about our D-Line. ;-)
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
Your post was fine
You were talked about defense. Just didn’t want us to digress too far into solely the offense.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
....
If My Life Is Great, Why Am I Not Happy?
by well you win some and lose others on Jan 13, 2012 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
I'm just going to say it
This team has very little talent. They have no consistent scoring threat and not a single lock down defender. Hard to win games that way.
I miss *REAL* Four Loko
by B-Lot tailgater on Jan 13, 2012 8:11 AM PST reply actions
I think there is talent
But I think there are two things at work: 1) The best talent is still pretty immature, leaving the lesser, more mature talent, to eat up minutes, and 2) The players that are on hand just don’t mesh well together.
Which I think makes it look like there’s very little talent. Or maybe we’re really just saying the same thing. I don’t know.
I do think you are right about
the mature less talented players eating up minutes.
I think next year will be a pleasant surprise and 2 years from now will be a vastly improved team.
I miss *REAL* Four Loko
by B-Lot tailgater on Jan 13, 2012 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
To elaborate
It seems to me the guys who see the most floor time are mostly role players. That doesn’t usually equal a good starting lineup.
I miss *REAL* Four Loko
by B-Lot tailgater on Jan 13, 2012 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
I would like to bite the bullet now
and start playing the young players more minutes and move on and build a foundation for the next two years. The way we have been playing I don’t think it would hurt to do so. Any athlete knows that more game time makes you a better player. You can’t replicate real game time. Smooth seas never made a skillful sailor.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
by SoCalCoug on Jan 13, 2012 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I completely, totally agree
To paraphrase a Cougar fan on Twitter, Bone should be more willing to fail with Lacy than he is with Aden.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I would like to see more Shelton, because what do we have to lose.
I had made a statement a while ago that I thought he could become as good as Casto on defense. I was way out of line on that comment. If we are going to have Shelton 2 years after this year, lets get him some game time. He needs to learn how to play against better competition, he is definitely not getting that in practice. I think he just needs game time to get better. He has already shown huge growth in his FTs, which probably means he is willing to listen and learn. I think he can become a solid defender and is already better than Enquist in that area…same goes with rebounding. Shelton has the chance to alter more shots than Enquist. It can’t hurt to give a 6’10" guy with above average athleticism more game time. It would be nice if we could get some development from Shelton this year to go along with Motum and Peters next year. And we don’t know exactly what we are getting in Peters yet.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
You just stole my thunder a little because
I was about to say the same thing about Shelton vs. Enqust. But, I think that right now any minutes given to an underclassmen in lieu of our seniors is a better situation for the team. Definitely in the long run and probably in the present.
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
If you saw the Oregon game, you saw the problem with giving Shelton many more minutes than he gets
If you didn’t see it, he was absolutely destroyed by off-ball movement in that game. He’s got some great physical attributes, but his basketball mind just isn’t there yet.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Funny, that was only game I missed this year being away for the holdiays
but I didn’t need to catch that game to see exactly what you talking about. It has been clear in the minutes he has played Still, I am always of the opinion that minutes spent on an underclassmen are not wasted minutes. Charlie Enquist isn’t going to change the fact that our season is going to end in Staples. But, Shelton can pay dividends in the future.
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
Thing is, on the list of our defensive issues
Charlie is pretty low.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
I understand
but I don’t know if he will get that basketball mind facing Enquist and others in practice. I know when I played sports I learned almost everything from games. If I got burned coach would pull me out explain what I did wrong and I got back into the game and I never let it happen again. There were players who made plays in games that couldn’t be replicated in practice. You need game time.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
I don't disagree with this
It’s just a fine line — how much can you tolerate without killing your team’s chances of winning? Bone’s obviously less tolerant of younger players on this front, especially those without much of an offensive game.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 13, 2012 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
"how much can you tolerate without killing your team's chances of winning?"
This is a very thin line, especially if it is your job. Has Bone found a combination that is giving us that chance? Can you handle losing by mistakes with learning opportunities or can you handle losing with upperclassmen who keep making the same mistakes are not talented enough? By the end of the year who which will pay larger dividends?
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
100 percent agree
I miss *REAL* Four Loko
by B-Lot tailgater on Jan 13, 2012 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
It's amazing the effect that the loss of two players has.
The way I see it, when the shots aren’t falling you’d better be able to play some good defense, which is something that we are yet to see.
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
I don't even know what to think anymore.
I used to think Bone was a good coach and I would still like to think he is. I am starting to have thoughts creep into my mind that he is just a great assistant, because players loved him when he was with Romar. Bone did a lot of the coaching and Romar did the motivating and recruiting, which is a awesome combination. He had a good run at PSU. I think he just got the right players at the right time at PSU. Unfortunately he hasn’t had the luxury at WSU. It just has been a weird situation so far for Bone. For some reason I still think he is a good coach and I believe he will get things worked out by next season. Some of these players just don’t seem to buy in or something. There should be no reason teams are shooting 51% against us. I think it might just be a chemistry thing with certain players. I also think a few of the players don’t have a chemistry with the coaching staff. I am interested to see how next year turns out. This is Bone’s 1st real class of “his” guys. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is next years line up. I also wouldn’t be surprised if some guys transfer and Bone fills another spot for next year.
Woolridge
Lacy
Johnson
Motum
Peters/Shelton
w/ defensive stopper Longrus in and out of the line up
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
by SoCalCoug on Jan 13, 2012 8:52 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I've never been a Bone fan at all.
And lots on here have called me out for it, which is fair enough.
That much being said, unless this season disintegrates into an out-and-out-disaster I’m happy to give him a chance to show what he can do with that group next year. Add DKD and Moore to that list and I don’t think it looks too bad (if Shelton improves; I don’t think Peters will be ready as a Frosh).
by Coug Friendly Canuck on Jan 14, 2012 1:26 PM PST up reply actions
I still think he's good on x's and o's most of the time.
I think he has issues managing personalities (getting through what his priorities are, holding them accountable for delivering).
At this point, if he can’t do it, then he needs someone on his staff who can. They don’t have to pull a kid out and read him the riot act when he goofs up, they can pull him out, talk to him and put him right back in, if they want to go that route. Players at this level should be able to understand things like spacing, guarding a man, not just an area on the floor, focus, etc., though I understand occasionally needing reminders. If they don’t get it after a 1 minute talk during a game, then they can get extended bench time.
If your upper classmen are “getting it,” then don’t continue to play them just because they’re upperclassmen. At that point they’re NOT helping you win, they’re setting a horrible example for the younger players, and they’re pushing the underclassmen’s learning curve out even further.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
by TiltingRight on Jan 14, 2012 3:41 PM PST up reply actions
Good read
You put numbers to what I have been thinking for a while. Klay and DeAngelo did not just provide offense, they provided it without hurting the defense. That is something I don’t see any freshmen or Aden providing.
How to defend Pac-12 talent (while it may seem similar to high school talent at this point) is not something players really learn in high school. I do see our D taking a step forward as our more athletic underclassmen gain some experience.
The only problem is I’m not sure if it will be a big enough step forward to offset losing Capers.
by Something Snazzy on Jan 13, 2012 10:45 AM PST reply actions
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