Wrapped Up In Recruiting
After the recruiting deadline passed this spring I reflected back on the events that occurred from that day and since national signing day is this Wednesday I thought I would share. I really found it interesting how emotionally wrapped up we can get over an 18 year olds decision. (I will admit over the years I have been upset over a recruit's decisions and Nusser has had to bring me back down to reality. I had to fight it again this last year, so do not worry I am part of the "we" category) So I want to dig into recruiting deeper to see if there is any reason why we should get wrapped up in an 18 year olds decision.
I decided to look at the different recruiting classes over the past 3 years. I examined the classes and their correlation with how teams finished in the BCS standings. Here is how I evaluated it. Let's say a player is a 2008 recruit, which makes his freshman (or redshirt) year the Fall of 2008, sophomore year (RS) Fall 2009 and the Fall of 2010 would be his 3rd year in the program. The 3rd year is when (most would agree) a team starts to reap the rewards of its recruiting class.
As you can see below, I listed the recruiting class rankings and the teams BCS rank that year. In 2008 Alabama had the #1 recruiting class and was ranked 16th in the nation. Three years later Alabama wasn't even ranked in the top 10. I thought maybe it was because players left for the NFL, but I was wrong, many of the 2008 recruits--like Mark Ingram and Julio Jones--were still there. Now if you look at TCU in 2008 they were almost the opposite of Alabama. They had the #144 recruiting class and three years later finished third in the nation.
Take note, the only school in the 2008 top 10 recruiting class to finish in the BCS top 10 (three years later) was Ohio State. In the 2009-10 season only two schools from the 2007 top 10 recruiting rankings finished in the BCS top 10. I also listed WSU and UW recruiting ranks for fun, UW being the fun part.
|
2010-11 BCS Standing |
Recruiting |
2008 Recruiting Rankings |
BCS |
||
|
|
Rank |
|
Rank |
||
|
1 |
Auburn |
18 |
1 |
Alabama |
16 |
|
2 |
Oregon |
23 |
2 |
Notre Dame |
N/A |
|
3 |
TCU |
114 |
3 |
Miami |
N/A |
|
4 |
Stanford |
43 |
4 |
Ohio State |
6 |
|
5 |
Wisconsin |
26 |
5 |
Georgia |
N/A |
|
6 |
Ohio State |
4 |
6 |
Michigan |
N/A |
|
7 |
Oklahoma |
13 |
7 |
LSU |
11 |
|
8 |
Arkansas |
24 |
8 |
Florida State |
23 |
|
9 |
Michigan State |
56 |
9 |
USC |
N/A |
|
10 |
Boise State |
64 |
10 |
UCLA |
N/A |
|
14 |
Washington |
|
|||
|
74 |
WSU |
|
|||
|
O |
|||||
|
2009-10 BCS Standings |
Recruiting |
2007 Recruiting Rankings |
BCS |
||
|
|
Rank |
|
Rank |
||
|
1 |
Alabama |
22 |
1 |
Florida |
4 |
|
2 |
Ohio State |
16 |
2 |
USC |
14 |
|
3 |
Boise State |
57 |
3 |
Texas |
5 |
|
4 |
Florida |
1 |
4 |
Tennesse |
N/A |
|
5 |
Texas |
3 |
5 |
LSU |
21 |
|
6 |
TCU |
73 |
6 |
Auburn |
22 |
|
7 |
Oklahoma |
30 |
7 |
South Carolina |
N/A |
|
8 |
Nebraska |
21 |
8 |
Pittsburgh |
15 |
|
9 |
Iowa |
37 |
9 |
Oregon |
11 |
|
10 |
Virginia Tech |
25 |
10 |
Michigan |
N/A |
|
29 |
Washington |
|
|||
|
54 |
WSU |
|
|||
|
2008-09 BCS Standings |
Recruting |
2006 Recruiting Rankings |
BCS |
||
|
|
Rank |
|
Rank |
||
|
1 |
Florida |
2 |
1 |
USC |
4 |
|
2 |
Texas |
3 |
2 |
Florida |
1 |
|
3 |
Oklahoma |
7 |
3 |
Texas |
2 |
|
4 |
USC |
1 |
4 |
Georgia |
13 |
|
5 |
Alabama |
18 |
5 |
Notre Dame |
23 |
|
6 |
Ohio State |
13 |
6 |
Penn State |
10 |
|
7 |
Virginia Tech |
31 |
7 |
LSU |
11 |
|
8 |
Mississippi |
15 |
8 |
Oklahoma |
3 |
|
9 |
Oklahoma State |
16 |
9 |
Auburn |
N/A |
|
10 |
Penn State |
6 |
10 |
Michigan |
N/A |
|
35 |
Washington |
||||
|
45 |
WSU |
The schools that finished in the top 10 in recruiting over the last three years did not consistently (more than two years in a row) finish in the BCS top 10. In fact, it is hard to finish in the BCS top 10 three years in a row period. LSU, Michigan and USC are the only schools to finish in the top 10 in recruiting three years in a row. These charts also show you how bad Michigan performed during this time. The recruits for Michigan evaluation process was either off or the players didn't fit RichRod's system at all. I did find it interesting how good of a job TCU and Boise State did in evaluating talent and developing that talent. A lot of people think it is because of the weak conferences that they play in, but these two schools have proven that they can play with the top BCS programs.
On the flip side, in 2007 UCLA had a top 10 recruiting class and three years later they were a disaster. All these different examples might suggest that the recruiting system is flawed. I would not go as far as to say the system is flawed, but a part of the evaluation process could be wrong. (UCLA could have also had good recruiters and bad coaching) A player who commits to USC can go from a 3-star to a 4-star just because a major BCS school was interested. This is not usually the case when a 3-star player signs with WSU or TCU. Chester Su'a is the only WSU recruit that I can recently remember who has gone up in ranking after he committed to WSU.
How else can we judge if recruits are being evaluated effectively? Let's look at the CFN All-Freshman team. In the charts below I have assembled the 2008, 2009 and 2010 CFN All-Freshman teams. I also listed what star they were ranked, what position they were recruited as, if they redshirted and if they were the #1 over-all recruit that year.
|
2010 CFN All-Freshman Team |
||||||
|
Offense |
||||||
|
Name |
School |
Recruited As |
Red Shirt |
Star |
#1 |
|
|
QB |
Aaron Murry |
Georgia |
QB |
X |
5 |
|
|
RB |
Marcus Lattimore |
South Carolina |
RB |
5 |
1 |
|
|
RB |
Wisconsin |
RB |
3 |
|||
|
WR |
Marquess Wilson |
WSU |
WR |
3 |
||
|
WR |
Robert Woods |
USC |
WR |
5 |
1 |
|
|
TE |
Gavin Escobar |
SDSU |
TE |
X |
2 |
|
|
OL |
Lucke Joeckel |
Texas A&M |
OT |
4 |
||
|
OL |
Seantrel Henderson |
Miami |
OT |
5 |
1 |
|
|
OL |
Jon Halapio |
Florida |
OG |
X |
3 |
|
|
OL |
James Hurst |
North Carolina |
OT |
5 |
||
|
OL |
James |
Tennessee |
OT |
3 |
||
|
K |
Ross Krautman |
Syracuse |
K |
2 |
||
|
KR |
Andre Debose |
Florida |
WR |
X |
5 |
|
|
Defense |
||||||
|
Name |
School |
Recruited As |
Red Shirt |
Star |
#1 |
|
|
DL |
Rossevelt Nix |
Kent State |
FB |
2 |
||
|
DL |
Justin Washington |
Arizona |
DT |
x |
2 |
|
|
DL |
Damontre Moore |
Texas A&M |
DE |
3 |
||
|
DL |
Junior Onyeali |
Arizona State |
DE |
3 |
||
|
LB |
Shaun Lewis |
Okalahoma State |
OLB |
4 |
||
|
LB |
Kevin Pierre-Louis |
Boston College |
OLB |
3 |
||
|
LB |
Jackson Jeffcoat |
Texas |
DE |
5 |
||
|
DB |
Brian Blechen |
Utah |
OLB |
3 |
||
|
DB |
Xavier Rhodes |
Florida State |
WR |
X |
3 |
|
|
DB |
Tony Jefferson |
Oklahoma |
OLB |
4 |
||
|
DB |
Ricardo Allen |
Purdue |
CB |
3 |
||
|
P |
Kirby Van Der Kamp |
Iowa State |
P |
2 |
||
|
PR |
Terrence Mitchell |
South Florida |
CB |
4 |
||
|
2009 CFN All Freshman Team |
||||||
|
Offense |
||||||
|
Name |
School |
Recruited As |
Red Shirt |
Star |
#1 |
|
|
QB |
Andrew Luck |
Stanford |
QB |
X |
5 |
|
|
RB |
Dion Lewis |
Pittsburgh |
RB |
3 |
||
|
RB |
Ryan Williams |
Virginia Tech |
RB |
X |
4 |
|
|
RB |
LaMichael James |
Oregon |
RB |
X |
3 |
|
|
WR |
Eric Page |
Toledo |
WR |
2 |
||
|
WR |
Alshon Jeffery |
South Carolina |
WR |
4 |
||
|
TE |
Orson Charles |
Georgia |
TE |
5 |
||
|
OT |
Michael Philipp |
Oregon State |
OG |
4 |
||
|
OT |
Barrett Jones |
Alabama |
OT |
X |
4 |
|
|
C |
Dalton Freeman |
Clemson |
OG |
X |
4 |
|
|
OG |
David DeCastro |
Stanford |
C |
X |
4 |
|
|
OT |
Tanner Hawkinson |
Kansas |
TE |
X |
4 |
|
|
Defense |
||||||
|
Name |
School |
Recruited As |
Red Shirt |
Star |
#1 |
|
|
DE |
Aldon Smith |
Missouri |
DE |
X |
3 |
|
|
DT |
Jerel Worthy |
Michigan State |
DT |
X |
3 |
|
|
DT |
Kawann Short |
Purdue |
DT |
X |
3 |
|
|
DE |
Nick Perry |
USC |
DE |
X |
4 |
|
|
LB |
Luke Kuechly |
Boston College |
SLB |
3 |
||
|
LB |
Vontaze Burfict |
Arizona State |
MLB |
5 |
1 |
|
|
LB |
Manti Te'o |
Notre Dame |
SLB |
5 |
1 |
|
|
CB |
Stephon Gilmore |
South Carolina |
S |
5 |
||
|
S |
Rashard Hall |
Clemson |
S |
3 |
||
|
S |
John Boyett |
Oregon |
S |
X |
3 |
|
|
CB |
Josh Robinson |
UCF |
CB |
3 |
||
|
P |
Jeff Locke |
UCLA |
P |
X |
4 |
|
|
2008 CFN All Freshman Team |
||||||
|
Offense |
||||||
|
Name |
School |
Recruited As |
Red Shirt |
Star |
#1 |
|
|
QB |
Russell Wilson |
NC State |
QB |
X |
2 |
|
|
RB |
Jacquizz Rodgers |
Oregon State |
RB |
4 |
||
|
RB |
Darren Evans |
Virginia Tech |
RB |
X |
4 |
|
|
WR |
Southern Miss |
WR |
5 |
|||
|
WR |
AJ Green |
Georgia |
WR |
5 |
||
|
TE |
Kyle Rudolph |
Notre Dame |
TE |
5 |
1 |
|
|
OT |
BYU |
C |
3 |
|||
|
OG |
Mason Cloy |
Clemson |
C |
X |
3 |
|
|
C |
Ben Jones |
Georgia |
C |
3 |
||
|
OG |
Cordy Glenn |
Georgia |
OT |
4 |
||
|
OT |
Elvis Fisher |
Missouri |
OT |
X |
3 |
|
|
Defense |
||||||
|
Name |
School |
Recruited As |
Red Shirt |
Star |
#1 |
|
|
DE |
Miami |
WLB |
4 |
|||
|
DT |
Lawrence Guy |
Arizona State |
DT |
4 |
||
|
DT |
Marcus Forston |
Miami |
DT |
5 |
1 |
|
|
DE |
Brandon Harold |
Kansas State |
DE |
2 |
||
|
LB |
Oklahoma |
MLB |
X |
4 |
||
|
LB |
Chris Marve |
Vanderbilt |
MLB |
X |
2 |
|
|
LB |
Sean Spence |
Miami |
WLB |
4 |
||
|
CB |
Janoris Jenkins |
Florida |
CB |
4 |
||
|
S |
Earl Thomas |
Texas |
CB |
X |
4 |
|
|
S |
Trent Hunter |
Texas A&M |
S |
4 |
||
|
CB |
Daquan Bembry |
Marshall |
CB |
X |
2 |
|
|
PK |
Philip Welch |
Wisconsin |
K |
X |
2 |
|
|
PK |
Bryan Anger |
Cal |
P |
X |
4 |
|
|
35 |
4 Star or higher |
|||||
|
33 |
3 Star or Lower |
|||||
In 2010 there were more 3-Star recruits and lower on the All-Freshman than in the previous two years. In 2008 there were nine 3-stars and lower, in 2009 there were 10 and in 2010 there were 15. This chart shows that just because a player is a 3-Star and lower doesn't mean that he cannot become a great player. If the recruitment evaluation process was perfect these charts should be loaded with 5-Star recruits. Only 11 out of the 68 players listed are 5-Star recruits. You can also see that in the last two years the defensive line has been the hardest to evaluate. It was almost 50/50 between 4-stars & higher and 3-Stars & lower.
What does all this tell me? That ranking recruits is not full proof and that just because a team has great recruiting class does not guarantee success. For instance, LaMichael James was 3-Star recruit and was ranked a 3-Star because of his size. If they evaluate players like James just based on that, these recruiting services are ranking players more on NFL talent than college talent. A great example is Adrian Peterson, everyone knew he had the talent to play in the NFL and that is what made him a 5-Star recruit. The reason these scouting services have to evaluate this way is because it is hard to evaluate based on what kind of offense or defensive scheme these players might play in. They have to evaluate all players on the same evaluation system because there is no other way to do it. This can make the recruiting system seem flawed because once a player gets to college certain players are going to thrive in the system they are in. Would James be as productive in USC's offense as he is in Oregon's? Would Colt Brennan have broken the touchdown record playing for Penn State? Don't get me wrong, there is value in these recruiting websites, but they have to judge players on the same scale and not what system "they think" these recruits will thrive in. And to add to this, I don't think scouts are able to cover every high school player in the nation (or outside the country) effectively and evaluate every player in the same way. Scouts look at things differently than other scouts. They also sometimes have to evaluate off of crappy video or video that only show highlights, not all the lowlights. There is a lot of ambiguity when it comes to evaluating high school recruits.
After doing all this research I am not getting myself emotionally attached to a recruit, especially if he changes his mind like Nembot and Cleveland did in years past. I was not upset as much as I think I was bummed because of how much effort Wulff and Co. had invested into these guys and then to see them (at the last minute) leave for what they see as greener pastures. We need to focus on the ones who make their decision to come to WSU, the kids who decide to make a commitment to be Cougs. This year, if there are recruits like Sankey who don't choose WSU, we should all care less and move on. Go Cougs!
This FanPost does not necessarily reflect the views of the site's writers or editors, who may not have verified its accuracy. It does, however, reflect the views of this particular fan, which is just as important as the views of our writers or editors.
11 comments
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Enjoy your rec sir.
This is a fantastic post
Attractive, Intelligent, Smart A**
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Jan 29, 2012 11:43 PM PST reply actions
Really interesting read, nice work.
I also found it interesting that of the 16 five stars to make freshman all-american, only five were from the defensive side.
by Mark Sandritter on Jan 29, 2012 11:59 PM PST reply actions
I am gathering that defensive players are harder to evaluate.
I also think a lot of guys change positions in college. Some HS linebackers go to Safety (if they have the speed) and DEs go to linebackers…etc. For instance, Logan Mayes was a great HS DE, but was really light (tweener), now he will fit nicely in the Cougs defensive scheme. A lot of guys who play offense in HS switch to defense in college. Also, it is easy to spot offensive studs in HS.
One thing I found interesting in all this is that the recruiting services had Marqise Lee as a Safety coming out of HS. They were way off on that one.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
Very cool and interesting
I am assuming that you used Scout for information? I’m just curious since they use the mandatory 50 – 5 stars vs ESPN where you would see and average of 12 per year. That would definitely make a big difference when you have 7 – 5 star players on the 2010 CFN All-Freshman Team and that was out of 12 that ESPN ranks compared to the 50 of Scout. (Also I counted 16 – 5 star recruits out of those 3 years). Definitely great stuff, are you planning on doing anything on a follow up over how the ranked players are in their upper class years. I think one problem with the Freshman is whether or not they saw significant playing time or were stuck behind upper classmen. I think one of the best examples is a guy like Trent Richardson who was a 5 star but split carries for his first couple of years because of the talent infront of him.
Good point.
If a 5-star is sitting behind another 5-star it is hard to make the All Freshman team.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
Yep
This is exactly what I thought of, too. The Alabamas and LSUs of the world play very, very few freshmen. I’d be curious to see how the All-Americans each year stack up vs. how they were evaluated coming out of HS.
Although I still think the best player on those teams plays.
I have seen a lot of talented freshman in these big programs jump ahead of upperclassmen. A lot of 5-stars don’t want to go play some where if they are going to sit behind another 5-star.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
RIght
But they usually are splitting time with the upper classmen so you do not see the numbers good enough to make the CFN All-Freshman Team. This opens it up for guys like MQW who is going to be option 1-5 for a sub-par team to rack up the numbers.
I don't think they always award the freshman by numbers.
For instance a DT doesn’t always have a lot of sacks or tackles. Some are voted on by presence. Also, if you are good enough as a freshman you will make that team. If you look at all the schools on the list most of them are from major conferences and major schools. The only small schools or not football schools you see on there are Marshall, Kent St., Vanderbilt, Toledo and if you want to count South Florida. The rest are schools are schools you see in bowl games.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
Yeah, its not Always by pure numbers but they really factor in
But it is interesting to note that you see almost none of the top defenders coming out of the SEC while they get a lot of the top recruits on the defensive side of the ball. This could explain the why you see a wide variance on the defensive side, they are just not ready to go up against upper classmen O-line or are stuck behind other big recruits on the D-line. Just a thought.
Yep. If they were true five stars they should be ready for those upperclassmen.
That is why ratings are not a given.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug

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