WSU Vs. Utah: Cougs Find The Floor, Lose to Utes in Overtime, 62-60
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 8:23 PM PST
in 2011-2012 WSU Basketball News
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PrintKeeping this short, because it really should just be a bunch of curse words.
Washington State just lost to the team ranked #336 by kenpom.com. That is out of 345 teams. Utah's previous game was a 73-33 loss to Colorado.
The Cougs came out sluggish in the first half and fell down 29-23. They played better in the second half and were able to build a six-point lead of their own before blowing it to Utah in the final minute after a couple of threes.
Marcus Capers, the team's supposed "lock-down" defender, was defending Utah's Josh Watkins as he made shots from nearly identical spots to tie the game and send it into overtime and win the game with three seconds left in overtime. Capers also took an ill-advised (that really isn't a strong enough term) three-pointer with WSU up two and thirty seconds to play. Capers should never shoot a three under any circumstances, let alone with the game on the line. If he wanted to shoot a three so bad, why didn't he do it all the time Watkins was giving him ten feet of space?
Brock Motum was the lone bright spot for WSU, scoring 27 points. Utah was having trouble defending him, but he didn't see the ball in the last three minutes of OT.
This is worse than the loss to UC Riverside. This is the floor. This is painfully embarrassing.
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I wonder if i show up tomorrow and poop on my desk at work
if i will get to finish the quarter out or if i get fired that day.
Where has the chemistry gone?
When Abe, Aden and Ladd were injured we played fantastic basketball. I had hoped that Bone would’ve benched them and kept them there, we were playing fantastic team ball without some of our top talent.
Well, I complained about the Wulff hiring by Sterk
and howled at the hiring of Bone, to the pt where this site got upset with me. You act like a third tier program, you get third tier program results.
CKB has another 4 years, so men get a stiff upper lip, there ain’t anything we can do as we are a football school now. There ain’t going to be a buy out. Suck it up and become coug ladies bball fans!
Hey, the spring game is just around the corner. Something to look forward to. Why do our Coug lows always suck way more than everyone else’s lows? UW fans are howling that they got beat @ CU by 20, but yet we simply one up them.
Hey guys, at least Mike Leach is our football coach!
…but really, why is Aden playing so many minutes? Am I missing something? He found a way to shoot the ball 14 times in 17 minutes of play, only making 4. Serious Faids.
I think the home crowd should boo every time Bones send out Aden.
Either it would pressure Aden to think better or make Bones look stupid sending him out.
If My Life Is Great, Why Am I Not Happy?
by well you win some and lose others on Jan 5, 2012 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
Probably not because that would essentially be interpreted as booing Aden
who happens to be a student-athlete that is trying his best even if he is not suceeding.
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
by PullManiac on Jan 5, 2012 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Yes...not a good idea.
I’m not one for booing anyone though.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 10:06 AM PST up reply actions
rhymes with go-for-pizza
by BigWood! on Jan 5, 2012 10:08 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I'll go back to my post-Oregon-blow-out comment
We were picked by the “experts” to finish between 5th and 8th this year but (baring divine intervention) I predict coach Bone will be gone by the end of next season.
Sometimes I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits
I think we all feel the emotion of this game
but discussions about Bone and his future are way premature. I know things are out of whack right now and I have the feeling that a lot of it is due to player discontent (just things I have heard through the Pullman grapevine). But, I think we have some good young pieces in place and I think that we have a great recruiting class to go forward with. I am a long ways from giving up on what Bone can do at Washington State.
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
I appreciate what you're thinking/saying
and IF coach Bones recruits come through for him and perform that’s one thing. But so far I’ve seen almost nothing that makes me optimistic about where we’re going with him at the helm. Take away Klay Thompson and where do you think coach Bone would have coached last years team to? Lower division finishes all the way as far as my eyes can see….
Sometimes I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits
by Say Howdy Kid on Jan 5, 2012 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
I am starting to loss faith in Bone also
To many games like this Utah game have become the norm since he has been here.
Also, none of his recruits (granted its only been two years) have really panned out yet. Lacy might be good if he learns some ball control. But so far he has given us Aden, Ladd, Moore, Chuks Iroegbu, Dave Wink, Dominic Ballard, Dexter Kernich-Drew, Royce Woolridge, and D.J. Shelton. Out of all those players (and again, I know its only been two years), who many would actually be playing at another Pac-12 school? Hell, how many would be at a MWC or WCC school?
by spokanecougar on Jan 5, 2012 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
How many of Bennett's players would you have said would play at another Pac-12 school in their first two years?
Klay Thompson? That is probably where the list ends.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Also interesting that you left Lacy off of that list.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
And included two players who don't have scholarships.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
Sorry, three players.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:14 PM PST up reply actions
I included Lacy
Said he needs to learn some ball handling skills.
As for comparing Bennett’s recruits to Bones, I think we can agree thats like comparing apples and oranges, Bennett recruited players to fit his system, which very few coaches play, therefore he didn’t really have to compete to get the best players that every school wanted. Bones recruits fit his system which just about every other school in the country runs making it harder to find good players we need to win.
by spokanecougar on Jan 5, 2012 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
Oh and for the walk-on
yeah I know they are walk-on, still Bone recruited them in some way.
by spokanecougar on Jan 5, 2012 10:29 PM PST up reply actions
They don't play and don't cost the school anything, so it is really irrelevant.
What coach brings Pac-10 quality in for walk-on? Even Charlie Enquist got a scholarship his freshman year.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
There is truth to the system argument, but I'm not ready to judge Bone on recruiting yet.
He hasn’t had much to work with in terms of guaranteed scholarships to offer until this year.
It’s pretty clear that WSU was the more talented team on the floor. Bone’s players were better than what Utah had to offer. The recruiting wasn’t the problem here.
If you want to be concerned about something, it should probably be that for the second straight Thursday night we allowed a team have the best game of their season.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
Now we are on to something...
We need to avoid playing on Thursday nights!
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 5, 2012 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Bone inherited a roster of 6 freshmen, 6 sophomores and Nik
And Nik’s spot was promised to Simon.
While Bone is ultimately responsible for the team he puts on the floor, it’s hard to not bring in underwhelming recruits when the only spots available to fill are to replace the spots when guys don’t pan out. When your window shrinks like that, you’re generally stuck with transfers and 2nd choices.
This incoming class is actually the first one Bone could plan out. Think about that for a minute: Bone’s first real recruiting vlass is for his FOURTH year! Scary thought.
by BigWood! on Jan 5, 2012 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Where were you a couple days ago when I was in a recruiting argument on another thread?
I kept waiting for you to come with this comment.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
This is a huge deal.
I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong on this, but I believe basketball recruits can be contacted something like the summer after 8th grade. That means if a coach doesn’t know he is going to have spots open he could be going up against coaches who have already been in contact with a kid for 4 years. Makes it tough to win recruiting battles.
Well I think the most glaring thing for Bone in terms of personnell
is looking back between Xavier Thames and Faisal Aden. Faisal kills this team more often than not while Xavier has been a solid starter on a quality SDSU team.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
If I remember correctly,
Thames didn’t want to split minutes with Reggie, which is why he left. I’m not sure Aden coming influenced Thames – could be wrong.
I don't think anyone chose Faisal over Thames
I’d rather have Klay on this team that Dexter, too…
I don't know the exact details of what happened.
Xavier transferred the same offseason that Bone brought in Faisal. Bone brought in Reggie too. I’m not saying he told Thames to leave but it’s pretty clear who Bone preferred for his back-court. I think it’s a fair knock on Bone to say he couldn’t keep one of the better players Tony left behind and replaced him with something worse. Also I don’t get what you’re saying with the Klay/Dexter thing?
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
Thames was getting 17 minutes per night as a true freshman
there was room for both of them. i don’t think it’s fair to suggest Bone “couldn’t” keep him. Players transfer all the time, for all sorts of reasons.
the Klay/Dexter thing was more about making preferences for situations that aren’t plausible. Sure, we’d all like to have Thames instead of FAIDS but if Thames doesn’t want to be here, it’s not really something we can ask for.
So you don't think it's plausible to think that
when Bone brought in two of his own guys to play in the backcourt that Thames didn’t see the writing on the wall that he would have to ride the bench for a few years here?
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
if he did, he was being very short-sighted
Dre Winston was one of Bone’s “own” guys too and he didn’t see the floor.
BigWood is correct
Guys leave for all sorts of reasons. Any speculation is generally little more than just that. I think there’s some truth to Thames seeing the writing on the wall with Reggie as Bone’s “guy,” but I don’t think that’s a knock on Bone. Sometimes that’s just how it works out.
I’m not sure fans understand just how common transfers are these days.
it would've been a lot nicer to have them both rather than one or the other
in the alternate reality where “Bone’s guy” was Thames, Reggie is probably at Seattle U putting up a 15/10 every night and fans are mad about how Bone chased Reggie off.
by BigWood! on Jan 6, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm not mad about it at all.
I’m saying it’s a fair critique of Bone to say he couldn’t keep one of the better players in the program around and did not adequately replace him.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
I think there's a difference between a fair question and a fair critique
Is it fair to question what happened? Sure. Is it fair to say Bone didn’t do a good job because a player left? That’s silly. And as far as replacing … is DaVonte Lacy not an adequate replacement?
The point I am trying to make
is while everyone wants to point and say Bone deserves a pass because the roster he inherited doesn’t work for anyone but Tony. That’s mostly true, but it does not apply to Thames. So if we are going to consider what Bone inherited when we talk about it we should discuss the good, Klay, D, Thames, Motum and bad; Lodwick, Capers, Harthun etc.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
Like you said it's just speculation and there's nothing we can do about it at this point,
but shouldn’t there be some sort of happy medium there? We complain a lot about really only having one true point guard on the team, but we forget that we had another that isn’t here anymore. Even in the NBA, the backup PG is a really important spot.
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
Bone seems pretty unconcerned with having true point guards.
I think even in an ideal world, he envisions Moore as a combo guard.
I'm confused by your point.
Are you saying that he doesn’t really want point guards?
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
Because even though I'm not some elite basketball strategist,
that seems pretty backwards to me.
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
He hasn't had any commit,
but that doesn’t mean that he hasn’t at least tried.
For the record, I’m not disagreeing with you. More just trying to understand this.
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
I think it's just as likely Xavier transferred
Because he didn’t fit, or didn’t see himself fitting, in the new style of play that Bone brought with him.
Even when Reggie is in the game, Marcus and Lacy both bring the ball up plenty. Last year Klay brought the ball up a lot.
As a coach, Bone seems to want to get into his offense from multiple positions and not be stuck with a “PG” that has to start all plays. That would be my observation, and before it starts I think it’s best to avoid discussing the merits of this approach and focus more on whether my observation is misguided based on what others are seeing.
From what I heard
it was that what he brought to the table wasn’t valued, and that there was a double standard for offensive and defensive execution.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
I think in Bone's ideal world, he'd have three combo guards on the floor at all times
Who can score both inside and outside. I don’t think he wants to be limited by one-dimensional guys, even though he is to a certain extent right now (looking your way, Marcus …)
Okay...now I feel fine about last night's loss...
(insert smiley-face emoticon here)
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 8:33 AM PST up reply actions
My sarcasm doesn't translate very well in written form.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
Under Bone haven't we been worse on Thursdays
I know last season we seemed to always play far better on the weekend games compared to the weekday games. I think we lost double the amount of games on Thursday/Friday then Saturday/Sunday games.
We were 3-5 last year, 2-6 in 2010
In the second game of two-game sets, we were 4-4 last year and 4-4 in 2010.
If you add in this year, it’s 5-13 under Bone in the first game of a weekend series, 9-8 in second games. Perhaps there really is something there.
We'd have to look at level of competition as well.
Could just be playing the tougher teams on Thursday more often.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 6, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Don't they alternate on the next matchup, though?
The Thursday team on Saturday and vice versa.
Though I guess whether we catch them home/away on that would make a difference, too.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
by TiltingRight on Jan 6, 2012 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
i don't think so
i seem to remember bitching about always having to play UCLA on Thursdays and UW got to play them after we softened them up.
Just checked.
The last two years they did alternate. So scratch that!
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 6, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
Even with the rotation
The level of competition we lose to on Thursdays the past two years have been some of the worst teams in the conference..
Stanford, Oregon, and i would include Cal from last year and Stanford, Oregon, OSU, and UCLA the year before (all finished in the bottom of the Pac-10)
There is a real theme here on not showing up on Thursday night games, especially when the competition is not as good.
And I'll reply to my reply and add that with the new P12 TV $$$ we can afford a better hoops coach to
just like we brought in coach Leach with big bucks we can and should expect more on the hardwood.
Sometimes I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits
by Say Howdy Kid on Jan 5, 2012 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
No, we really can't
Ken Bone is making $850,000/year for four years AFTER this one. With everything that’s needing to be paid for with football, there is no way on earth he’s going anywhere for at least two more seasons. Period.
The TV money is not a bottomless pit — a large part of it is already spoken for and going toward the football facilities.
Thanks, Sterk
Don’t interpret this as FIRE BONE, but giving him an initial contract with seven years of guaranteed money was mind-numingly stupid.
by Brian Floyd on Jan 5, 2012 11:07 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
See my recruiting post above
Knowing he wasnt going to get his guys on the floor until year 4 was probably part of that.
I don't remember exactly, but I'm assuming there was buyout hysteria at the time.
The fan base wanted a large buyout to avoid another similar departure, maybe that required more guaranteed years.
by Mark Sandritter on Jan 5, 2012 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
I can understand BigWood's theory
But if he gave a new coach a seven-year contract for fear of abandonment, then…
by Brian Floyd on Jan 6, 2012 11:14 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
i'm not defending the contract
but between how mad people were about how little WSU was compensated for Bennett leaving, people wanted to make sure it didn’t happen again. To get Bone to agree to a larger buyout, Sterk probably had to give something in return.
This is all speculation. I know nothing.
I know nothing either
Just saying if he gave Bone, who hadn’t been a head coach in a major conference, seven years on an initial contract just to appease people who wanted some significant buyout… Well, it’s completely stupid.
by Brian Floyd on Jan 6, 2012 11:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Completely agree with Brian. Seven years was simply too long for a first contract.
If he hits it out of the park the first 2 or 3 years there is ample time to extend. As we’ve seen time and time again, long contracts really only favor the coach.
Seven years (in my opinion) is too long of a contract for anyone not named Coach K.
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
sure
i don’t know a ton about basketball contracts. i know five is the standard for football, but there’s probably something we’re all missing.
maybe Bone saw the inevitable and knew things were going to get worse before things got better while the Bennett-ballers got purged.
I'd agree with this too
Its just something I don’t like on a first contract. There are more creative ways to structure things than handing out seven years of guaranteed money, in my opinion. Especially when it would seem WSU was in somewhat of a position of negotiating power
by Brian Floyd on Jan 6, 2012 11:35 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Except Sterk didn't see it that way
He stated publicly several times that the program was left in great shape and he was able to attract strong candidates with D-1 head coaching experience with the talent that was left.
if I were Sterk, I would want to sell my position in the best light also
he also just watched a guy he was paying a million dollars a year flee across the country as soon as the tournament team had graduated.
Ouch
I guess I didn’t understand that it was 7 years with no option to cut him early at a discount for being non-competitive. Don’t know what I was thinking. Maybe that should be the standard for all coaching contracts – pay more for good years and a lot more for great years; less for bad seasons and a lot less for dismal ones.
Guess it’s time for hoping/praying coach Bone’s guys (4 years to get his first class of recruits in place? would that be true for all coaches/sports? if so was that why Wulff had such weak results through year 4?) come through for him and play well in whatever system he has planned for them…
Sometimes I sits and thinks and sometimes I just sits
by Say Howdy Kid on Jan 6, 2012 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
How many players play on offense and defense in a football game?
If a coach is substituting liberally, what — like 35? And there are 22 starters. He gets 85 scholarships.
A basketball coach gets 13 to fill out an 8- or 9-man rotation. You do the math. If the previous coach saddles the current coach with a bad scholarship situation, it takes time to get those guys out of the program before you can legitimately bring in a substantial amount of your own guys.
I’m not excusing away last night, or some of the other embarrassing stuff that’s happened under Bone. I’m just saying it’s not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, and you would be wise to keep that in mind.
If I were king of the world...
…or at least the WSU AD at the time, I would have done a four year deal.
But that’s just me.
I honestly think one can assess pretty well after two seasons whether the “right guy” was chosen…no matter who is on scholarship at the time.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
I'd have to go look at the games to explore your point...
…in more detail.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
He was 38-47 after three seasons, 13-29 in ACC play
No NCAAs, one NIT — in his first season, “with the previous coach’s players.” (I put that in quotation marks because that’s a common refrain from fans.)
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 6, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not even referring to the record.
I’m talking about really looking at the games in detail.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
Really?
You’re going to go back to box scores from 1980-83 to make an informed decision on this one? The point is that the record was less than stellar and would have been more than enough in today’s culture to “assess pretty well … whether the right guy was chosen.”
Check out the three years before Coach K:
NCAA Finalist, NCAA Second Round, NCAA Elite Eight.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 6, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Wow. I never knew this about Coach K.
That really puts things in perspective. If Duke had all that success before him, you’d think they be screaming for his head after year 3. Those were much different days compare to now. Bone is currently 46-32 (.589). If you look at that in NBA terms that would be decent season. I remember in 1987 the Sonics went 39-43 and lost in the conference finals to the Lakers. Yes, I know NBA vs. NCAA is much different, but interesting to look at.
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
I understood your point exactly...
I am also of the opinion that one cannot just look at the record at the beginning of a coaching staff’s tenure and necessarily make an informed decision.
I’m just giving my perspective on this…obviously not speaking for “today’s culture.”
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
Just one additional comment...
I have actually been one to be arguably too patient with coaches in the past.
That would be the knock on me.
I want to badly to see “good guys” succeed. Bone is a guy I’d like so much to succeed at WSU…just like I wanted to see Wulff succeed and felt bad for him when he didn’t.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
So you say you shouldn't just look at the record
But you also say you shouldn’t take the scholarship situation into account. What, exactly, would you use to evaluate the coach then? Are no factors that are outside of his control part of the equation? I’m genuinely curious.
What I'd look at are...
“positive/negative surprises” in games (i.e. upsets)….how they perform on the road…how they perform vs. “expectations”….positive or negative trends…team discipline/chemistry…shot selection…recruiting…etc.
I don’t recall saying that I would not take the scholarship situation into account. If I did, I retract that. There are certainly some things out of a coach’s control.
I don’t really want to get into an argument or debate on this, but I believe that one can make a reasonable assessment by the end of year two as to whether a coach is going to be successful at a particular level or not.
Like I’ve said before, I have incorrectly erred in the past on keeping coaches too long, even when most all evidence pointed to a conclusion that they should be replaced.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 4:06 PM PST up reply actions
Well..this is season three...
…after all.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
But we can certainly agree to disagree...
…it’s nothing personal. Just college basketball.
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 6, 2012 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
i don't have a problem with people thinking they have seen enough to make judgement
but i do think this transition is more of a perfect storm than people give it credit for; between having the wrong personnel on the roster and the lack of open positions to correct the personnel problems.
that is more a judgement on the program as a whole. it does not excuse the abomination that happened last night.
One caveat.
The coach can “push” players to go elsewhere if they don’t fit in to what he wants. After that first year, he should have seen who can run and shoot, and who can’t, and then made his personnel adjustments.
That doesn’t mean he has kids lined up to fill his spot who CAN run his system (Winston, Sequele), but the coach DOES have the ability to change the roster quicker than Bone has chosen to.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
by TiltingRight on Jan 6, 2012 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
see my point up above
Even if Bone is coaxing players to leave, or even if he hauled them all into his office and told them this was their last semester in Pullman, you’re still going to struggle to find replacement value for them. The basketball recruiting window is SO FLIPPING BIG and when you only give yourself a few months, you’re going to end up with Dre Winston and Greg Sequele.
by BigWood! on Jan 6, 2012 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
No disagreement, particularly in year 1.
Though you can decide you’re going to recruit 3 new guys all year, and then decide who’s place they’ll be taking later. Remember all the kvetching about who was getting what scholarship last season? (I think it was last season)
I recognize that recruiting is time intensive and requires relationships, even assuming you can target kids that help your system (thus, my second paragraph) but you can still overhaul the roster faster than Bone has chosen to.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
Isn't that kind of like what Moos did with Wulff and Leach?
Pre-recruiting for the reason that someone might leave can get ugly. It is hard to recruit a kid and then tell him I think so and so is going to leave next year so we will have a spot. No player wants to come play for a coach who operates like that. Good players want to here that they have guaranteed spot, that is why it is hard to fill late openings. I think most coaches recruit to the spots they have open, because that is what you do. That is why it sucks when a player waits to long to declare for the NBA draft. Assumption recruiting is not good (unless you are Calipari).
CougCenter OG since 9/2/2008 | @TheSoCalCoug
Good point,
but you can be up front about it with the kids, so anyone who doesn’t see themselves fitting in/getting PT may make the decision for you.
As for prospects wanting a guaranteed spot, if they sign an LOI, their spot is guaranteed.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
by TiltingRight on Jan 6, 2012 11:09 PM PST up reply actions
I think a standard five year contract
With a strong review after year four would have been fair to all parties.
Or one with rollover options.
#CougHarmonyOnTwitter #teamnopants
by TiltingRight on Jan 6, 2012 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
The Pac12 is the worst conference in America
Our supposed “good” of Arizona, Cal, Stanford, UW?
-Cal lost to Oregon St
-Stanford lost to Oregon
-Arizona is down at half to pathetic UCLA
- Uw got blown out by Colorado
Arizona St. with 6 scholarship players is currently beating USC 46-41 w/ 5 minutes to go.
This conference is an abomination.
Unless of course Colorado and Utah just had everyone fooled and are gonna win the league.
by TheFountainAndTheMountain on Jan 5, 2012 9:04 PM PST reply actions
The conference is probably 7th best at worst.
I’m not seeing how teams within a conference beating other teams is an example of the conference weakness. You can do better tab that.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 9:08 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
*than that.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 9:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Why hasn't the conference rebounded over the past 4-5 years?
It’s becoming like a Wulff project, eternally rebuilding
The blood of "The Five" cries for justice.
There are a lot of reasons
But the biggest two is that the conference hasn’t attracted top-tier talent the last few years (particularly UCLA) and much of the talent that was on the teams left early before it could fully develop. Just a lot of really tough circumstances, honestly.
Well let's see since 2007,
Arizona, ASU, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Cal, Stanford and the Cougs have all changed coaches at least. UW and UCLA are the only ones with established coaches. Throw in Howland’s meltdown in LaLa land and there you go. An awful Big 6 league.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
And it's not like Colorado and Utah were added with strength in hoops in mind.
"If you want your dreams to come true, don't sleep in."
This kind of down cycle happens to most conferences
People forget how awful the SEC was for a few seasons just a couple of years ago. It’ll rebound.
My god, were they bad
Pre-Calipari at Kentucky, the entire SEC was awful.
You can also say the same about just about every other conference
The only reason the ACC has seemed immune to it is that Duke and Carolina are almost always very good. But the rest of the conference has gone through some downturns, for sure.
actually the conference is currently ranked 9th
if you go to the ESPN college basketball blog entry from a few days ago the rankings are there w/ Big10 at the top, Big East etc etc. We’re behind A10, Mountain West, Missouri Valley for certain.
Teams that are supposed to be the best of the conference getting beaten by so so teams and teams that are supposed to be okay getting beating by just downright mediocre teams shows you that there aren’t really any elite teams in the conference or any middle of the pack teams- its just all one big muddled mess. Unless you’re the Big East, a conference’s best bet to get multiple bids is to have a few teams really seperate themselves.
Of course I’m over reacting and its just the beginning of conference play but the way no teams were able to win on the road today does not bode well. This is a one bid league unless a different team wins the Tourney.
by TheFountainAndTheMountain on Jan 5, 2012 9:31 PM PST up reply actions
Okay well, ESPN did it differently. I'll try to find the link now.
And they didn’t just rank them according to how they felt. they used numbers to back it up.
by TheFountainAndTheMountain on Jan 5, 2012 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
They use some good elements in those.
But using the “human bonus” is strange to me. Still, 9th is the “worst conference in the world” but I understand you are frustrated nonetheless and feel your pain.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
For what it's worth.
I do think the best college basketball analysis is a mix of data and observation. However, human polls aren’t a great source of observation because it is literally impossible to see every game with 345 teams.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
worst conference in the world is obviously an exaggeration on my
part in the heat of the moment.
However, 9th best or even 7th best just does not cut it when you think of the resources, money, recruiting that the Pac12 has access to.
Can anyone argue this is more than a 1 bid league?
by TheFountainAndTheMountain on Jan 5, 2012 9:58 PM PST up reply actions
The thing the conference really needs is a clear upper tier and clear lower tier
That would be the best chance of more than one bid. That’s where nights like tonight really hurt.
It would be nice if people could lose the idea that kenpom's ratings are an ironclad law
I love what he does and it’s an amazing tool but just responding to discussion with “KENPOM” isn’t really a whole lot better than responding with"EYETEST"
He was simply making the point that this is not the worst conference in America by arguably the best objective measure
And the ensuing conversation about methodology was a good one, no? Your comment seems a little out of place here.
Speaking of Ken Pomeroy,
every single game last night was won by the Pomeroy underdog (the absolute worst possible thing for the conference’s standing, I might add)
I think the predicted pre-gameday odds of that happening were like 1 percent. It was astoundingly sucky.
"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.
One is not enough after tonight, Murray.
You better have a keg behind you.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:53 PM PST up reply actions
What I want to know is
How do I only have one rec for the Murray picture? Our commenters must have changed a lot in the last two years …
I forgot to rec it, sorry.
But maybe we just need to post FOTC clips for the next few weeks.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 6, 2012 10:05 PM PST up reply actions
Ever since that Sporcle quiz I refuse to give recs to anyone in the Top 10.
Streamin' and Threadin' and Shellin | @shellin1
1% of the population has 95% of the recs
Something must change!
Streamin' and Threadin' and Shellin | @shellin1
Speaking of Murray, you know who would have saved us tonight?
Emerson Murray.
"Tonight, we skate with them. Tonight, we stay with them. And we shut them down because we can!" | Herb Brooks
by Coug999 on Jan 5, 2012 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Haha
No. He might save you a year from now though!
by Avinash Kunnath on Jan 6, 2012 3:35 AM PST up reply actions
Would you rate him top two?
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 7, 2012 8:10 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Remember when that was a Top 10 Cougcenter moment?
I almost forgot about it, it was so long ago.
by sdcoug09 on Jan 7, 2012 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How'd this not get recs?
Attractive, Intelligent, Smart A**
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Jan 12, 2012 10:02 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure that after some exhaustive statistical analysis...
.
…we will certainly be able to explain away this loss with convincing rationality.
:-)
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 5, 2012 10:08 PM PST reply actions
Yeah.
This game makes no sense statistically.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:52 PM PST up reply actions
You guys are underestimating yourselves...
(insert smiley-faced emoticon here)
by westsidecougar1 on Jan 5, 2012 11:18 PM PST up reply actions
I tried so hard to come up with a good caption.
But I was too pissed off to be creative.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
I like to think he is making a Howard Dean yell
but in a question form, not exclamatory.
10/22 from the foul line.
TOLD YOU.
CougCenter In Reid We Trust, Twitter!
by Craig Powers on Jan 5, 2012 11:54 PM PST up reply actions
bleh.
Well, I was hoping we would be decent this year. Oh well, baseball season’s just around the corner.
You do realize you just jinxed us?
Attractive, Intelligent, Smart A**
by Neil Vincent Roberts on Jan 12, 2012 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
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